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[ontolog-forum] Ontologies and the awful German language....

To: "[ontolog-forum] " <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "Peter F Brown" <peter@xxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 19:30:24 +0100
Message-id: <1B2253B0359130439EA571FF30251AAE072CBC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
No-one captures it better than Mark Twain:
"Surely there is not another language that is so slipshod and
systemless, and so slippery and elusive to the grasp. One is washed
about in it, hither and thither, in the most helpless way; and when at
last he thinks he has captured a rule which offers firm ground to take a
rest on amid the general rage and turmoil of the ten parts of speech, he
turns over the page and reads, 'Let the pupil make careful note of the
following exceptions.'"
Dunno whether he meant German or CL, CG, IKL, RDF, though...    (01)

One difference though: in many logic languages, the verb comes at the
beginning of the sentence not the end ;-)    (02)

Hey, Icelanders drive on the right (ie "correct" and !"left") side of
the road, it's just the Irish, the Maltese, the Cypriots and, oh,
yeah...    (03)

Peter
Brit-on-the-Mainland-of-Europe
-----Original Message-----
From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Duane
Nickull
Sent: 08 January 2008 19:18
To: [ontolog-forum]
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] CL, CG, IKL and the relationship between
symbols in the logical "universe of discourse" and individuals in the
"real world"    (04)

Damn!  I should have suspected this from Iceland as some people are
still
driving on the *wrong* side of the road....    (05)

;-)    (06)

I'm finding Ontology a lot like German - exceptions to exceptions to
exceptions...    (07)

/d    (08)


On 1/8/08 9:06 AM, "Peter F Brown" <peter@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:    (09)

> Duane:
> It gets worse than that: the semantics of FirstNameofHuman are not
> "neutral" either: in Iceland, for example, the first name is the
> significant name - even the telephone directories are ordered by first
> name; the family name is simply a sort of qualifier (daughter of...,
son
> of ...) but which is not considered as significant as the first name.
I
> remember dramas when I worked in the Council of Europe when newly
> arrived Icelandic staff were faced with paperwork asking for their
> family name or surname but where "Christian" name (there's a bombshell
> in itself for some) or forename was not asked for - this was
considered
> as rude and indelicate as it still is for many English people to be
> addressed by their first names by people they don't know.
> 
> 
> So in reply to John's point of packaging a section of text, even
widely
> accepted packaging does not detract from the problem of adding yet
> further context - and the problem is, however careful you are, there
> will often be situations where the context requires something else.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Peter
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Duane
> Nickull
> Sent: 08 January 2008 17:49
> To: [ontolog-forum]
> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] CL, CG, IKL and the relationship between
> symbols in the logical "universe of discourse" and individuals in the
> "real world"
> 
> John:
> 
> As someone who mapped XML to EDI and other formats, this statement
gave
> us
> lots of things to think about:
> 
> 
> On 1/8/08 6:47 AM, "John F. Sowa" <sowa@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> 
>>      * Syntax.  The syntactic function of context is to group,
> delimit,
>> quote, or package a section of text.
> 
> The issue arises when one builds automatic mappers based on metadata
> artifacts stored in a registry-repository.  Even if we sit down and
> agree on
> the semantics of "First Name of Human Being" as a data element and
give
> it a
> metadata representation term of "FirstNameOfHuman" (type=string) and
> constrain the instance values of a list of pre-approved names, there
is
> a
> syntactic context issue at mapping.
> 
> If it appears in Xan XML instance of a purchase order using the Xpath
> syntax
> in the hierarchic context of:
> 
> //PurchaseOrder/BuyerParty/FirstNameOfHuman
> 
> The exact same data element has slightly different semantics (strictly
> in
> the context of mapping to another instance of XML) if it appears in a
> different hierarchic context of:
> 
> //PurchaseOrder/SellerParty/FirstNameOfHuman
> 
> As the BuyerParty vs. Seller Party hierarchic context qualifies the
data
> element.
> 
> Is this the type of syntax context you refer to?
> 
> Duane    (010)

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