Ravinder (01)
> is how do we find out what domain an ontology
> supports, what are all the features of a particular domain its exposing. (02)
my understanding is that ontologies are (should be) 'explicit'
This implies that their structure should be declared and visible
When it comes to implementation, different environments offer
different options, from what I know (03)
a user would know how to structure a query by (04)
- looking at the ontology documentation and understant its components/structure
- using a query support mechanism sometime offered by the ontology
implementation environment
- if an ontology supports natural language, heuristics and fuzzy
queries, just construct the query as it comes and see what comes out
then evaluate the result against a model of 'desired' outcome (not
sure if this is an actual option) (05)
> a) how do we know which ontology we have to start exploring for getting the
> home address of a person
> b) how do i know to which extent some ontology exposes the address of a
> person. one ontology might say only about mail address while other might say
> about mail address + home address. (06)
well, I guess one would have to construct a multiple method
say (07)
1. construct a generic 'broad' query, and run it across multiple ontologies
this process can be automated with some kind of meta macro approach (08)
2. if the above does not yield the target result, write a more
specific query for each of the ontologies (09)
I think of a search engine mechanism example, where a query is likely
to capture a resource when its available for parsing, but some
repositories hide the information at a deeper level can cannot be
parsed with a generic query, but the target info can be retrieved
by opening up individual repositories and diggin in using ad hoc method (010)
>
> one way that i have observed is that people generally have very deep
> understanding of the ontology they are working in and already know before
> hand where they have to find out the information (foaf in this example). (011)
i think its highly desirable that ontologies provide query support, ie
some kind of schema that the user can just fill in the blank values (012)
> this approach i don't think is scalable if we have to design that is
> independent of the knowledge of ontologies. If we are to write some generic
> query processor that is independent of the knowledge of ontology structure,
> then how to go about it. (013)
I think the classical 'breadth and reach' versus 'depth and precision'
tradeoff might also apply here to some extent. generic query approach
has its limitations (014)
>
> i think there should be some standard way by which ontologies should
> publicize the domain information which they model to a very fine detail. by
> using this information we can find out which is the ontology we should start
> exploring for getting the information we need. (015)
i think this is already a desirable practice, but maybe not yet a firm
requirement
I would add it to the the requirements list that is posted somewhere on the wiki
under open ontology notes
>
>
> please let me know about what you think about this :) (016)
> I hope I understand your question - and that the ideas above at least in
>part answer it (017)
let us know what you come up with (018)
cheers
PDM
>
>
>
> On 8/29/07, Deborah MacPherson <debmacp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > User perspective but also user processing requirements.....evaluating ABC
> data for XYZ purpose using LMNOP ontology. Maybe they need to test run a few
> options before deciding how to proceed - which data set and ontology suits
> their purpose best.
> >
> > The framework may not be able to capture the user's uncertainty, or assess
> the risk, of whether or not they are utilizing the best materials, means and
> methods available - except possibly to standardize and measure what is
> working together properly - within the framework.
> >
> > Deb
> >
> >
> >
> > On 8/29/07, paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx < paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx > wrote:
> > > I see what you mean.
> > >
> > > Until now, we have discussed uncertainty (and risk also fits in here
> > > somehow) as resulting from unknown variables that may affect the
> > > correctness of a model over time, or under a certain condition
> > >
> > > Here uncertainty seems to derive from the difficulty of matching one
> > > construct (the query) which is formed based on a given cognitive model
> > > of the user (what the user does not know and wants to find out) with
> > > the structure of the ontology.
> > >
> > > It is uncertainty but of a different kind. I dont think it would come
> > > under entropy from what I see, then I wonder where would it fit in the
> > > framework.
> > > Probably its a 'user perspective'
> > > I think more a perspective than a dimension perhaps
> > >
> > > what do you think
> > >
> > > PDM
> > >
> > > On 8/29/07, Deborah MacPherson < debmacp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > > Hi Paola -
> > > >
> > > > Yes, as you say below but it seems to me Ravinder also wants a way to
> > > > recognize ontologies when they are initially encountered. Would this
> have to
> > > > do with "where it fits" in the framework including its degree of
> > > > uncertainty?
> > > >
> > > > Deb
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 8/28/07, paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx <paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx > wrote:
> > > > > sorry, slighly amended post
> > > > >
> > > > > On 8/29/07, paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx < paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > > > > Hi Deb
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for forwarding Ravinders question.
> > > > > > You mean its similar to my question about how to go about adding
> new
> > > > > > dimensions to the framework?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The suggestion of adding 'entropy' to the framework comes from the
> > > > > > discussions around which there seems to be some agreement, that
> > > > > > ontologies should model 'change' - from simple change of usage of
> > > > > > words and terminologies during time, to the more complex changes
> of
> > > > > > states of entities, to the more ambitious modelling of 'unknown
> > > > > > variables'
> > > > > > briefly touched upon in a discussion with Ed (have a generic class
> of
> > > > > > 'unpredictable' random variables in any ontological model to
> represent
> > > > > > at least symbolically 'uncertainty') -
> > > > > Probably also partly answers the question of why bridges fall
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Entropy seems to abstract quite well the principle of change,
> without
> > > > > > making any prescription at this stage on how change should be
> > > > > > modelled, which probably depends on the domain being addressed.
> > > > > > The current (hm, yesterday morning asia pacific time) entry on
> > > > > > wikipedia gives a good enough introduction, with a clear reference
> to
> > > > > > S in information theory
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The less organzeds is a system the higher its entropy - lots of
> > > > > > changes going on in the web
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So maybe I was thinking of 2 questions (or more)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1.is entropy a suitable dimension to be added to the framework to
> > > > > > summarize the discourse on change
> > > > > > 2. how do we 'change' the framework over time? (that matches both
> 1,
> > > > > > as well as Ravindra's problem - which maybe others can address
> > > > > > separately)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cheers
> > > > > >
> > > > > > PDM
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 8/29/07, Deborah MacPherson < debmacp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > > > > > Hi Paola,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Please see the message below forwarded from Ravinder Thakur on
> > > > > > > Linking-open-data at MIT. Will his problem be addressed in the
> > > > framework?
> > > > > > > Does anyone have suggestions for Mr. Thakur and his
> collaborators at
> > > > linking
> > > > > > > open data?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thank you,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Deborah
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Deborah L. MacPherson
> > > > > > > Projects Director, Accuracy&Aesthetics
> > > > > > > Specifier, WDG Architecture PLLC
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > > > > > From: "Ravinder Thakur" < ravinderthakur@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > To: "Linking Open Data" <
> > > > linking-open-data@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx >
> > > > > > > Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 22:18:09 -0700
> > > > > > > Subject: [Linking-open-data] RDF/SPARQL and consistent metadata
> about
> > > > > > > content/structure of ontologies
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > For the past few days i have been trying to look at RDF/SPARQL
> from
> > > > query
> > > > > > > designing point of view. What basically i have been trying to do
> is to
> > > > take
> > > > > > > very simple /user/ queries (" e.g. Bill Gates net worth") and
> try to
> > > > see if i
> > > > > > > can automatically create the corresponding queriers in SPARQL.
> The
> > > > versatile
> > > > > > > nature of domain of data stored in RDF means that data from
> every
> > > > domain
> > > > > > > would have its own ontology. And the knowledge/understanding of
> > > > ontology is
> > > > > > > very much prerequisite to understanding the data based on that
> > > > particular
> > > > > > > ontology.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This seems a little bit of problem to me. This means that we
> cannot
> > > > build
> > > > > > > queries until we know that structure of ontologies and since
> there
> > > > might be
> > > > > > > thousands of ontologies how are we supposed to know about all
> the
> > > > > > > ontologies. Moreover everyday new ontologies will be added to
> the
> > > > web.? IS
> > > > > > > the assumption that the dust will settle after some time and we
> will
> > > > have
> > > > > > > only very few good ontologies about the world ? This seems
> highly
> > > > > > > restrictive to me.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Obviously I want to write a query processor that is independent
> on the
> > > > > > > ontology that the data i am looking on is based upon. I don't
> want to
> > > > know
> > > > > > > pre hand what ontology might correspond to the data i am looking
> .
> > > > What i am
> > > > > > > looking for some consistent way to represent the /METADATA/
> about the
> > > > > > > structure and content about ontologies so that from the metadata
> about
> > > > the
> > > > > > > ontology, i can automatically know about the structure and
> relevance
> > > > of the
> > > > > > > ontology for the query i have in hand.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Has anybody faced the problem i have highlighted ? or what i am
> saying
> > > > is
> > > > > > > stupid :) and there is some simple way out there ?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > > Ravinder Thakur
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 8/27/07, paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx < paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > When is the next update of the framework due?
> > > > > > > > I propose we add 'entropy' as a new dimension
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Do I have to write something up? Or are the discussions so far
> on
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > need to model
> > > > > > > > 'change' sufficient?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > Paola Di Maio
> > > > > > > > School of IT
> > > > > > > > www.mfu.ac.th
> > > > > > > > *********************************************
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
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> > > > > > > On 8/27/07, paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx < paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > When is the next update of the framework due?
> > > > > > > > I propose we add 'entropy' as a new dimension
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Do I have to write something up? Or are the discussions so far
> on
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > need to model
> > > > > > > > 'change' sufficient?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > Paola Di Maio
> > > > > > > > School of IT
> > > > > > > > www.mfu.ac.th
> > > > > > > > *********************************************
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
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> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > >
> *************************************************
> > > > > > > Deborah L. MacPherson
> > > > > > > Projects Director, Accuracy&Aesthetics
> > > > > > > Specifier, WDG Architecture PLLC
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> > > > > > School of IT
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--
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School of IT
www.mfu.ac.th
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