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thanks for your response. i also felt like there is no way to move forward with it. but another important point is wether this is a significant issue for ontologies in the long run. is this a potential problem in realizing the full potential of ontologies in perticular and semantic web in general ?
Your thought on this will be appriciated.
On 8/30/07, Pat Hayes <phayes@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>Hi Deb
>
>Thanks for forwarding Ravinders question.
>You mean its similar to my question about how to go about adding new
>dimensions to the framework?
>
>The suggestion of adding 'entropy' to the framework comes from the
>discussions around which there seems to be some agreement, that
>ontologies should model 'change' - from simple change of usage of
>words and terminologies during time, to the more complex changes of
>states of entities, to the more ambitious modelling of 'unknown
>variables'
>briefly touched upon in a discussion with Ed (have a generic class of
>'unpredictable' random variables in any ontological model to represent
>at least symbolically 'uncertainty')
>
>Entropy seems to abstract quite well the principle of change,
Sorry, I strongly disagree. Change and entropy
are completely different ideas. They are related
by the thermodynamic theorems, but those apply
only in carefully controlled conditions (closed
systems, etc.) and are not a good basis for
general ontology work (for example, they do not
apply to the Internet as a whole, which consumes
vast amounts of energy). In any case there are
many kinds of change which are not related to
thermodynamics. Change is related to time, not
entropy. For a (now quite old) survey, see
http://www.ihmc.us/users/phayes/TimeCatalog.pdf
>without
>making any prescription at this stage on how change should be
>modelled
Good idea, although one should be aware that this
is one topic on which ontologists have probably
spent more effort and thought than any other, so
it is hardly a blank slate.
>, which probably depends on the domain being addressed.
>The current (hm, yesterday morning asia pacific time) entry on
>wikipedia gives a good enough introduction, with a clear reference to
>E in information theory
>
>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy
>
>The less organzeds is a system the higher its entropy - lots of
>changes going on in the web
>
>
>So maybe I was thinking of 2 questions
>
>1.is entropy a suitable dimension to be added to the framework to
>summarize the discourse on change
No.
>2. how do we 'change' the framework over time? (that matches both 1,
>as well as Ravindra's problem - which maybe others can address
>separately)
I don't think Ravindra's problem is directly
related to change at all: he is more concerned
with the multitude of ontologies all of which
conceptualise things differently and to which he
wants to apply global queries. He is simply out
of luck: what he wants to do (using SPARQL) is
not feasible in the current state of the art.
Pat
>Cheers
>
>PDM
>
>
>
>On 8/29/07, Deborah MacPherson <debmacp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> Hi Paola,
>>
>> Please see the message below forwarded from Ravinder Thakur on
>> Linking-open-data at MIT. Will his problem be addressed in the framework?
>> Does anyone have suggestions for Mr. Thakur and his collaborators at linking
>> open data?
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Deborah
>>
>> Deborah L. MacPherson
>> Projects Director, Accuracy&Aesthetics
>> Specifier, WDG Architecture PLLC
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: "Ravinder Thakur" < ravinderthakur@xxxxxxxxx>
>> To: "Linking Open Data" <
linking-open-data@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx >
>> Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 22:18:09 -0700
>> Subject: [Linking-open-data] RDF/SPARQL and consistent metadata about
>> content/structure of ontologies
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> For the past few days i have been trying to look at RDF/SPARQL from query
>> designing point of view. What basically i have been trying to do is to take
>> very simple /user/ queries ("
e.g. Bill Gates net worth") and try to see if i
>> can automatically create the corresponding queriers in SPARQL. The versatile
>> nature of domain of data stored in RDF means that data from every domain
>> would have its own ontology. And the knowledge/understanding of ontology is
>> very much prerequisite to understanding the data based on that particular
>> ontology.
>>
>> This seems a little bit of problem to me. This means that we cannot build
> > queries until we know that structure of ontologies and since there might be
>> thousands of ontologies how are we supposed to know about all the
>> ontologies. Moreover everyday new ontologies will be added to the web.? IS
>> the assumption that the dust will settle after some time and we will have
>> only very few good ontologies about the world ? This seems highly
>> restrictive to me.
>>
>> Obviously I want to write a query processor that is independent on the
>> ontology that the data i am looking on is based upon. I don't want to know
>> pre hand what ontology might correspond to the data i am looking . What i am
>> looking for some consistent way to represent the /METADATA/ about the
>> structure and content about ontologies so that from the metadata about the
>> ontology, i can automatically know about the structure and relevance of the
>> ontology for the query i have in hand.
>>
>> Has anybody faced the problem i have highlighted ? or what i am saying is
>> stupid :) and there is some simple way out there ?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Ravinder Thakur
>>
>>
>> On 8/27/07, paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx < paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >
>> > When is the next update of the framework due?
>> > I propose we add 'entropy' as a new dimension
>> >
>> > Do I have to write something up? Or are the discussions so far on the
>> > need to model
>> > 'change' sufficient?
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Paola Di Maio
>> > School of IT
>> >
www.mfu.ac.th
>> > *********************************************
>> >
>> >
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>> On 8/27/07, paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx <paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx
> wrote:
>> >
>> > When is the next update of the framework due?
>> > I propose we add 'entropy' as a new dimension
>> >
>> > Do I have to write something up? Or are the discussions so far on the
>> > need to model
>> > 'change' sufficient?
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Paola Di Maio
>> > School of IT
>> >
www.mfu.ac.th
>> > *********************************************
>> >
>> >
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>>
>>
>> --
>> *************************************************
>> Deborah L. MacPherson
>> Projects Director, Accuracy&Aesthetics
>> Specifier, WDG Architecture PLLC
>>
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>--
>Paola Di Maio
>School of IT
>www.mfu.ac.th
>*********************************************
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