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Re: [ontolog-forum] Disaster Management ontology BOF in Delft

To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: Waclaw Kusnierczyk <Waclaw.Marcin.Kusnierczyk@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 01:22:25 +0200
Message-id: <4669E4B1.4050005@xxxxxxxxxxx>
John F. Sowa wrote:
> Wacek,
> I was taking the notion of "be" in the most generous sense
> of the term -- namely existence in a Platonic heaven of
> mathematical entities -- something along the lines of
> Cantor's heaven of infinities of infinities of sets (as
> Hilbert and Gödel conceived of it).
> JFS>>  ...there must be a complete and consistent description
>  >> of the entire universe for all time.
> vQ> First, what is meant by 'description'?  A written, spoken
>  > sentence, a thought, a collection of propositions?
> A collection of propositions as abstract entities in that
> Platonic heaven.
> vQ> If there is such a description, is the description a part
>  > of the universe, and as such, is it a description of the
>  > entire universe -- thus including the description itself?
>  > If it is not, what does 'entire' mean?
> It is impossible to have a perfect model of any physical system
> that takes less space and matter than the system itself.    (01)

Not a perfect material model of a material system.    (02)

> Any description of a physical system that gets down to the atomic
> level would require more atoms to record it than there are atoms
> in the system.    (03)

I proposed a similar argument a few weeks ago on this forum.
One difference:  I can imagine a perfect model of a system, using just 
exactly the same amount of matter and space as that system occupies.
That we can't make such models is another issue.    (04)

> As I said in my earlier note, such a description would constitute
> a sizable chunk of MoG (the Mind of God), which I assume would be
> located (if "located" is an appropriate term) in a Platonic heaven.    (05)

In the sense you propose, I agree, there must be a complete and 
consistent description of the entire universe for all time.    (06)

vQ    (07)

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