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Re: [ontolog-forum] Disaster Management ontology BOF in Delft

To: "[ontolog-forum] " <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "Cassidy, Patrick J." <pcassidy@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 12:20:22 -0400
Message-id: <6ACD6742E291AF459206FFF2897764BE019B8ECB@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
The line that caught my attention was:
>> The issue identified was that no single event code structure would work, since each emergency service has a different structure of codes.
 
Translated, this seems to say that "the event codes will be inconsistent because the event codes are inconsistent."  Hmmmm.
 
Of course, if one is going to define one class of "event code" and permit everyone to attach any code to any event, the chances are they will be inconsistent.  This is a restatement of the problem, it is not the solution.  The solution is to attach namespaces to the local codes, and where there is an identity of event type labeled by different codes, to create an identity relation between the codes (or the events represented).
 
The different emergency services have different interests, depending on what kind of incidents they can or should respond to.  That doesn't mean they can't talk to each other.  A single properly structured ontology will have no difficulty differentiating between the interests of different parties and the level of interest each has in an event of a particular type.  A particular event has a single set of  properties, regardless of who is looking at it.  The interests of different groups regarding the same event may differ widely.  Those different interests regarding a single event can be represented.
 
A complication can arise if a "code" includes in it not only what the nature of the event is, but what the nature of the response should be.  This can also be handled by namespaces, but it would be better to have the event "code' represent the nature of the event, which can then be the same regardless of the perspective from which it is being viewed.  A separate code for response would be specific to each responder.
 
Pat
 
Patrick Cassidy
CNTR-MITRE
260 Industrial Way West
Eatontown NJ 07724
Eatontown: 732-578-6340
Cell: 908-565-4053
pcassidy@xxxxxxxxx
 


From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Barker, Sean (UK)
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 4:25 AM
To: [ontolog-forum]
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Disaster Management ontology BOF in Delft

I should declare an interest. Among other jobs, I am vice-chair of a CEN workshop on a tactical situation message structure for emergency response and disaster management. This includes a controlled vocabulary structured a set of trees, one for each element of the message. One particular problem is that of defining an 'event code', that is, what sort of event is being dealt with.
 
The issue identified was that no single event code structure would work, since each emergency service has a different structure of codes. Analysis suggests that the event code is selected through a (probably implicit) decision procedure based on the factors involved in the incident, such as the cause (flood, fire...) or the 'actors' in the incident (train, wild animals...). In some cases these factors are used as a heuristic to determine the sort resources that the event needs - e.g. a road traffic accident is an indicator of the types and numbers of casualties (multiple trauma), and the sort of equipment needed to deal with the incident (compare to 'flood'). Since the emergency services supply different sorts of capabilities, they can come to very different conclusions as to the nature of the incident.
 
For example, in the UK, the Bunsfield fire was the biggest fire in Europe since the Second World War, and from the fire view point was a major incident, requiring resources from across the UK over several days. From the ambulance view point, it would be a minor incident, since there were very few injuries.
 
That is, I don't think that "event" can be represented by a single ontology, and that it should be represented by a set of factor ontologies (for scale, cause and actor) for which there is some measure of agreement. Further, that what should be codified is the upper ontology, such that the ontology can be extended by subclassing for the local situation - for example, the upper ontology class "wild animal incident" might be subclassed in Africa to "Elephant rampage", but that is not a code we would use in the UK.
 
Any thoughts?

Sean Barker
BAE SYSTEMS - Advanced Technology Centre
Bristol, UK
+44 (0)117 302 8184

 


From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx
Sent: 07 June 2007 07:40
To: [ontolog-forum]
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Disaster Management ontology BOF in Delft

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Rex and all

I met Renato Iannella a couple of weeks back, and we have had informal chats as to how to proceed with this project, and we are now exploring possibilities. Today he is inviting W3C members
to join this task, I ll pass this onto this list in case someone is interested in helping with this effort.
( come in please!)

http://esw.w3.org/topic/DisasterManagement

Rex,

We have suggested to Sahana's project leads to set up tests for EDXL within Sahana, will let you know if something happens of it

(I am still not happy with the term 'disaster management' but I guess that's a formality that can be dealt with later?)

Cheers

Paola Di Maio


On 4/28/07, Rex Brooks <rexb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Thanks Paola,

Testing is the intent. That's exactly what we want for the specifications. Testing the Reference Information Model will be a bit more challenging since its usefulness lies in being the source of common abstract components for the EDXL family. As such it will always be evolving, as will the individual specifications. We are well into the first stages of collecting requirements for the next version of CAP and EDXL-DE, though, to be honest, I really hope we keep bringing in more fresh recruits, with more energy than some of us who are now working on their fifth and sixth and seventh specifications seem able to muster. I've got about two or three more specs left in my tank, and then I will seriously need a break.

Cheers,
Rex

Well
I cant think of a better  way of giving feedback on a standard than trying it out
I was thinking some kind of user test
of course in addition on any other input that people may have off the top of their heads
PDM
On 4/28/07, Rex Brooks <rexb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I can't speak for the TC, but getting this far was a big hurdle, so I
don't want to make it seem like the TC is ready for further steps,
even if I personally happen to be in favor of such testing.

Cheers,
Rex

At 10:42 AM -0700 4/27/07, Peter Yim wrote:
>Just to clarify ...
>
>>  [PDM]  .... we have established that a schema IS NOT  an ontology, ...
>
>[ppy] who are "we" ... and when was this established?
>
>If you are referring to OntologySummit2007, then I afraid the
>statement is misconstrued ... I think it was repeated many times
>during the summit proceedings that "we were not there to identify what
>"is" or "is not" an ontology, or even to define "what is an ontology"
>.... we were only there to see how we could better understand
>"ontology" and "ontology-related"/"ontology-like" artifacts.
>
>Regards.  =ppy
>--
>
>
>On 4/27/07, paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx < paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>  Dear Rex and all
>>
>>   thanks for pointers
>>
>>   I have circulated the edxl review period link to peers before, I think it
>>  might be useful to test it againt specific use cases
>>
>>   Indeed this is important
>>
>>   I wonder if we could use this opportunity as a testbed for the proposed
>>  framework
>>
>>   Should we create a conceptual link between the edxl schema to a bigger
>>  picture for EM.
>>
>>    I mean, we have established that a schema IS NOT  an ontology, and that an
>>  ontolopgy HAS schemas, right?
>>
>>   would this be a useful exercise to plot this schema into a bigger, yet to
>>  become, em picture made of entities and relationships and peoples and things
>>    would this help people understand why edxl is important?
>>   (I am still thinking of joining the EMTC btw, long 'to do' list)
>>
>>   PDM
>>
>>
>>
>>  On 4/27/07, Rex Brooks <rexb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > Thanks for posting this to the Ontolog Forum, Paola,
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > Since I work with Renato regularly in the OASIS Emergency Management
>>  Technical Committee (EM TC), if he attends this conference, he can certainly
>>  pass along the views of our TC and the SC I co chair where we toil away  on
>>  EDXL-RM and are awaiting the set of specification requirements from our
>>  experts group.
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > This brings up the first topic I would like to see passed along at this
>>  conference. EDXL-RM (Resource Messaging is in its 60-day Public Review
>>  period. It will still be in the active review period during the conference.
>>  The URL for the announcement made to the Ontolog Forum is
>>  http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/2007-04/msg00006.html
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > The announcement includes URLs for the document in several formats and the
>>  pubic comment form. The URLs include the zipped package XSD files  and it is
>>  especially important to note that all of the imported-cited specifications
>>  and examples are included for the convenience of implementers and reviewers.
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > Last note that Renato can pass along is the fact that the EM TC is
>>  undertaking the development of the Emergency Data Exchange Language
>>  Reference Information Model (EDXL-RIM) which will include an RDF Schema and
>>  an OWL-DL specification in addition to the now-conventional XML Schema, so
>>  we are actually moving to the next level for structured information
>>  standards in providing an ontology for the abstract reference information
>  > model that unifies existing EDXL specifications and can be used for writing
>>  the upcoming additions to the EDXL family.
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > That does not mean that it is not an uphill struggle. TCs are notoriously
>>  literal-minded and stay close to the concrete, but getting agreement to make
>>  this first step is a milestone in my opinion, and we have been working
>>  towards this for quite a while now.
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > Cheers,
>>  > Rex
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > At 4:59 PM +0700 4/27/07, paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
>>  > Dear all
>>  > [apologies for cross posting]
>>  >
>>  > Following the ongoing discussion in this community, and latest thread on
>>  w3 list, I have been considering how best to bring the
>  > > emergency management ontology to the industry discussion table, (other
>>  than starting a war)
>>  >
>>  > Although I have not yet succeeded to have the topic included in the
>>  conference agenda ,  peers  attending ISCRAM in Delft  Holland 13-16 next
>>  month also consider the discussion important, so I am touching base with a
>>  couple of people with the idea of setting up a BOF with the aim to get to
>>  know each other and exchange ideas
>>  >
>>  > I am personally not likely to be in the conference (considering my topic
>>  of interest has not been included) but I'll try to hang around a couple of
>>  days in the neighborhood so that we can get the discussion going, and
>>  hopefully have it included in the future official editions of the
>>  conference.
>>  >
>>  > I take this chance to invite anyone on this list or colleague, especially
>>  those likely to be physically in the region who may want to come out for an
>>  emergency drink,  to flag their interest, so that we can keep you posted of
>>  our whereabouts
>>  >
>>  > Feel free to forward  Renato's  email below, sent to w3 list
>>  >
>>  > Cheers
>>  > Paola Di Maio
>>  >
>>  > FORWARDED
>>  > Hi all - a few of us attending the ISCRAM Conference have proposed a
>>  > BOF on "Ontologies for Emergency Management"
>>  > which is receiving lots of interest from the community and standards
>>  > groups.
>>  >
>>  > See < http://esw.w3.org/topic/DisasterManagement > as an
>>  example.
>>  >
>>  > If you are interested, the please email me directly and we will
>>  > arrange for appropriate logistics at Delft.
>>  >
>>  > Cheers...
>>  > Dr Renato Iannella
>>  > Principal Scientist
>>  > NICTA, Level 19, 300 Adelaide St, Brisbane, QLD, 4000 AUSTRALIA
>>  > [t] +61 7 3000 0484 [f] +61 7 3000 0480 [m] +61 4 1313 2206
>>  > [e] renato@xxxxxxxxxxxx [w] http://nicta.com.au [i] aim:renatoi2003
>>  > [v] skype:riannella
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
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>>  > --
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > Rex Brooks
>>  > President, CEO
>>  > Starbourne Communications Design
>>  > GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
>>  > Berkeley, CA 94702
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>>  --
>>  Paola Di Maio****
>>
>>
>>  Lecturer and Researcher
>>  School of Information Technology
>>  Mae Fah Luang University
>>  Chiang Rai
>>  Thailand
>>  *********************************************
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--
Rex Brooks
President, CEO
Starbourne Communications Design
GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
Berkeley, CA 94702
Tel: 510-849-2309

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--
Paola Di Maio****


Lecturer and Researcher
School of Information Technology
Mae Fah Luang University
Chiang Rai
Thailand
*********************************************

 
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-- 
Rex Brooks
President, CEO
Starbourne Communications Design
GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
Berkeley, CA 94702
Tel: 510-849-2309


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