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Re: [ontolog-forum] Visual Complexity

To: "[ontolog-forum] " <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: Rex Brooks <rexb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 21:11:11 -0800
Message-id: <p06240530c1e71fdd5072@[]>
Please excuse me Paola,    (01)

I apparently mischaracterized you by misinterpreting several usages 
that I have observed. However, I did not characterize your use of 
English as a communication problem. My observation relies entirely on 
my own observations over many years in a fairly cosmopolitan town, 
Berkeley, California, where we may actually have as many individuals 
for whom English is neither native nor main than we do native 
speakers.    (02)

My assertion was only that English is not your native language and 
that was not based on having asked you so I simply should not have 
made that assertion, I should have phrased my comment to say that to 
me it does not appear that you are a native English speaker.    (03)

Regardless, English is still a devilishly complex mix of Romance and 
Teutonic languages along with many others, and I know several very 
learned academicians who are native speakers yet who regularly 
torture and abuse the language unmercifully. Additionally, in my 
opinion, some of the best communicators using English are, in fact, 
not native English speakers.    (04)

In any event my comment did not pertain to whether or not it is your 
main language.  However, the point as I see it now is that we need to 
be careful to ensure that we are actually communicating what we 
intend to communicate, and in this case I am a clear example of that. 
So my comment applies to myself as much as anyone else, and I think 
we all could be more careful in our discussions. Now, I think it is 
best if I stop digging myself any deeper into this error.    (05)

I apologize.    (06)

Rex    (07)

>Hi Rex
>thanks a lot for comments
>I need to add a clarification:
>>  1. She is not a native English speaker, and English is a devilishly
>>  complex mix of Romance and Teutonic languages, so this factor is
>>  largely linguistic
>May I ask where do you get your facts from? English is in fact my 
>main language!
>I am interested to hear that it doesnt sound so. Although I am fluent
>in Spanish and German,and I was brought up in Italy as a child  and
>now live in Asia learning mandarin
>admittedly  may contribute to my excessive linguistic hybridization.
>I would not be able to write about my given subjects in any other
>language, and generally manage to put my point across. I am sorry that
>you think there is a comunication problem
>and if I somethimes fall short
>  Interestingly however that perfectly clear and grammatically correct
>Global English - a language that is emerging from the influence of
>different cultures and languages that follows the lexical conventions
>- is perceived by americans and english (not just you Rex)
>as'non standard'.  I dont think that great authors and poets use
>standard language either.
>I think we have an issue to solve there.....
>>  2. Her commentary is somewhat more sociological rather than academic
>>  or strictly logical, so this factor requires more careful
>>  examination, including what Pat has already contributed.
>Not sure Rex, I admittedly work under pressure, so I may not always be
>as careful
>or clear as I should/could  and I like to make up some expressions and
>words (have literary backgrouns)- however in my exchange with Pat I
>feel that
>- my initial draft is intended as guidelines for requirements in
>software and systems development. so the discussion is not intended to
>be sociological, but technical
>based open source paradigms. collaborative and modular ontologies are
>being studied/proposed, so I am not saying nothing new, although it
>may sound new to those who are not keeping up with developments in
>this area. Somehow I assume that
>people on this forums are experts, and people who 'write standards'
>are uptodate with the state of the art in ontology engineering. I
>know, its easy to get buried in one own's work, but its important
>these days of rapid changes to keep up with whats happening around us
>othewise we become cut off, and our work will be obsolete before it's pubished
>- I inferred from Pat's comments that he is out of the loop on what's
>happening, or maybe simply has a different background/stance that
>prevent him from seeing the reality that  I am trying to
>portray/address with my notes, but again, maybe I have not been
>exaustive, nor sufficiently clear, and people who come from a
>different completely point of view and perspective are just another
>fact of life, and I'll have to deal with that
>at the moment though, the priority is to start connecting with the
>people and projects where
>no further words are necessary, cause that's where the effort is
>likely to be more effective
>I do owe sending out the references though, for completeness
>thanks for the exchage anyway
>>  Since I am at this, I may as well confess my own favorite hobbyhorse:
>>  semantic analysis based on a combination of linguistic analysis with
>>  sound epistemology and operations research should provide two very
>>  necessary tools for our collective conceptual armamentarium:
>rex, that sounds *weird* but interesting
>>  I suspect that an open ontology development environment with rigorous
>>  constraints would aid this effort immeasurably.
>>  Long term, I am hoping to provide this toolset to the domains of
>>  emergency management and health informatics.
>I suspect that you'll have to do this with others, otherwise you are
>creating a closed
>world and your produce may not work in an open world environment
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>    (08)

Rex Brooks
President, CEO
Starbourne Communications Design
GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
Berkeley, CA 94702
Tel: 510-849-2309    (09)

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