Rex
No problem at all
I guess it's all about getting to know each other and deal with
differences in perspectives
( ontology), its important that issues come up an get discussed (01)
English is the best language I know for communication, and that s why
I made it my first language - try to write technical documentation in
chinese or even german or italian - not good results . My english is
ok, surely not always perfect, like you say, same as for many native
speakers.
But this 'standard English' stigma exists, and it can be used as a
discrimination tool , so I welcome the dicussion on correctness,
although its above my ahead cause I am closing down into my own world
for a bit to get some work finished (02)
cheers
PDM (03)
On 2/1/07, Rex Brooks <rexb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Please excuse me Paola,
>
> I apparently mischaracterized you by misinterpreting several usages
> that I have observed. However, I did not characterize your use of
> English as a communication problem. My observation relies entirely on
> my own observations over many years in a fairly cosmopolitan town,
> Berkeley, California, where we may actually have as many individuals
> for whom English is neither native nor main than we do native
> speakers.
>
> My assertion was only that English is not your native language and
> that was not based on having asked you so I simply should not have
> made that assertion, I should have phrased my comment to say that to
> me it does not appear that you are a native English speaker.
>
> Regardless, English is still a devilishly complex mix of Romance and
> Teutonic languages along with many others, and I know several very
> learned academicians who are native speakers yet who regularly
> torture and abuse the language unmercifully. Additionally, in my
> opinion, some of the best communicators using English are, in fact,
> not native English speakers.
>
> In any event my comment did not pertain to whether or not it is your
> main language. However, the point as I see it now is that we need to
> be careful to ensure that we are actually communicating what we
> intend to communicate, and in this case I am a clear example of that.
> So my comment applies to myself as much as anyone else, and I think
> we all could be more careful in our discussions. Now, I think it is
> best if I stop digging myself any deeper into this error.
>
> I apologize.
>
> Cheers,
> Rex
>
>
> >Hi Rex
> >thanks a lot for comments
> >
> >I need to add a clarification:
> >
> >> 1. She is not a native English speaker, and English is a devilishly
> >> complex mix of Romance and Teutonic languages, so this factor is
> >> largely linguistic
> >
> >May I ask where do you get your facts from? English is in fact my
> >main language!
> >I am interested to hear that it doesnt sound so. Although I am fluent
> >in Spanish and German,and I was brought up in Italy as a child and
> >now live in Asia learning mandarin
> >admittedly may contribute to
my excessive linguistic hybridization.
> >I would not be able to write about my given subjects in any other
> >language, and generally manage to put my point across. I am sorry that
> >you think there is a comunication problem
> >and if I somethimes fall short
> >
> > Interestingly however that perfectly clear and grammatically correct
> >Global English - a language that is emerging from the influence of
> >different cultures and languages that follows the lexical conventions
> >- is perceived by americans and english (not just you Rex)
> >as'non standard'. I dont think that great authors and poets use
> >standard language either.
> >I think we have an issue to solve there.....
> >
> >
> >> 2. Her commentary is somewhat more sociological rather than academic
> >> or strictly logical, so this factor requires more careful
> >> examination, including what Pat has already contributed.
> >
> >Not sure Rex, I admittedly work under pressure, so I may not always be
> >as careful
> >or clear as I should/could and I like to make up some expressions and
> >words (have literary backgrouns)- however in my exchange with Pat I
> >feel that
> >- my initial draft is intended as guidelines for requirements in
> >software and systems development. so the discussion is not intended to
> >be sociological, but technical
> >based open source paradigms. collaborative and modular ontologies are
> >being studied/proposed, so I am not saying nothing new, although it
> >may sound new to those who are not keeping up with developments in
> >this area. Somehow I assume that
> >people on this forums are experts, and people who 'write standards'
> >are uptodate with the state of the art in ontology engineering. I
> >know, its easy to get buried in one own's work, but its important
> >these days of rapid changes to keep up with whats happening around us
> >othewise we become cut off, and our work will be obsolete before it's
>pubished
> >
> >- I inferred from Pat's comments that he is out of the loop on what's
> >happening, or maybe simply has a different background/stance that
> >prevent him from seeing the reality that I am trying to
> >portray/address with my notes, but again, maybe I have not been
> >exaustive, nor sufficiently clear, and people who come from a
> >different completely point of view and perspective are just another
> >fact of life, and I'll have to deal with that
> >
> >at the moment though, the priority is to start connecting with the
> >people and projects where
> >no further words are necessary, cause that's where the effort is
> >likely to be more effective
> >
> >I do owe sending out the references though, for completeness
> >
> >thanks for the exchage anyway
> >PDM
> >
> >
> >> Since I am at this, I may as well confess my own favorite hobbyhorse:
> >> semantic analysis based on a combination of linguistic analysis with
> >> sound epistemology and operations research should provide two very
> >> necessary tools for our collective conceptual armamentarium:
> >
> >rex, that sounds *weird* but interesting
> >
> >
> >> I suspect that an open ontology development environment with rigorous
> >> constraints would aid this effort immeasurably.
> >good
> >
> >>
> >> Long term, I am hoping to provide this toolset to the domains of
> >> emergency management and health informatics.
> >
> >I suspect that you'll have to do this with others, otherwise you are
> >creating a closed
> >world and your produce may not work in an open world environment
> >
> >
> >Cheers
> >Paola
> >
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>
>
> --
> Rex Brooks
> President, CEO
> Starbourne Communications Design
> GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
> Berkeley, CA 94702
> Tel: 510-849-2309
>
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> (04)
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