Amit, as far I'm concerned, foreign travel is an expense that at this
time would be very difficult for me to get approval for.
In a strange way, the scarcity of funding for SWS-related work makes it
hard for some people in the US to travel to Europe
and elsewhere where SWS is in heat. (01)
In answer to Michael's question, I am particularly interested to hear
about 'shameless plugs' about R&D technology that could be
applicable in the context of JPL and to a larger extent NASA. However,
my criteria of 'applicability' is somewhat different than
the conventional notion of practical = tool-supported technology that is
simple enough to support agile methodologies. (02)
My notion of pragmatism is an approach that addresses two ends of the
SWS spectrum:
- the practically agile side of tool-supported SWS methodologies
- the extremely formal side of theory-grounded SWS methodologies (03)
If I can exagerate a bit, Amit's approach with Meteor-S is an example of
the first case
whose strength is in its developper-friendly approach with reasonable
tool support.
Michael Grunninger's approach is an example of the second case whose
strength is
in the precise and rigorous manner in which one can apply
theorem-proving techniques
to analyze, validate and certify one's approach. WSMO is somewhere in
between. (04)
So, one logical next step is to strategize about how we can make
stronger connections across
SWS methodologies so that we could, e.g., formally reason about a
practical SWS application
using an precisely defined model of the application processes according
to a formal ontology
of services in FLOWS + specific extensions according to the application
characteristics
(e.g., are the activities deterministic or non-deterministic, are the
preconditions for activities
stated in terms of state, time, state+time, the occurence of other
activies, something else?,
do states have the Markov property (I.e., no history) or not?, ...) (05)
The practical view of SWS is in some ways narrow focused to one thing:
using SWS as a way
of building an application. It's as if SWS were a new 'implementation'
language like Java or C. (06)
This is a very narrow minded view of SWS in my opinion for 2 reasons. (07)
1) If we have a precisely characterized formal ontology for a SWS
(i.e., something like FLOWS + all of the appropriate PSL trimmings)
then we could match the SWS application to other process formalisms like
PiCalculus or
other models of automata. These formalisms offer alternative methods for
analyzing an SWS application,
e.g., for purposes of model checking, reachability, commandability,
diagnosability, etc... (08)
2) Even on the practical level, there are significant challenges to
layer a computational model
that is adequate for implementing SWS on top of leading-edge engineering
platforms like grid-scale
computing or the next-generation internet for space exploration. (09)
-- Nicolas. (010)
Amit Sheth @ LSDIS wrote: (011)
>
> Michael,
> Would you or someone from the group be interested in offering a
> panel/follow up at ICSOC-DWP
> (http://lsdis.cs.uga.edu/projects/meteor-s/dwp2005/), or another
> workshop (mainly Mediate'05).
> If so, I can look to see if there is a slot.
>
> Amit
>
>
>
> Michael Maximilien wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Let me start by seconding Peter and thanking all the presenters and
>> to Nicolas for moderating.
>>
>> I was wondering how we could follow-up on the discussions we have
>> started during the panel? In particular, does it make sense to have
>> some workshop or some other form of discussions? One approach is to
>> meet during an existing conference, e.g., the up coming ICSOC 2005
>> conference in Amsterdam in December of this year?
>>
>> I am particularly interested in business applications of SWS and the
>> scenarios where the technologies are applicable. In some sense, I
>> see the basic vision of SWS as not only a path to help automate some
>> aspects of SOA solutions but from a broader view to help move IT
>> services and processes (engagements) to the Web.
>>
>> I am thinking of how IT service providers (e.g., IBM Global Services,
>> Accenture, and so on) currently execute service engagements or
>> particularly the kind of collaboration, knowledge, cocreation of
>> value, and so on, that occurs in a service engagement. With the Web
>> as the service delivery platform, SOAs are allowing a dynamic
>> substrate for IT service providers and consumers. However, as we all
>> know, one thing that is missing from current approaches, to enable
>> better automation, is a conceptualization of the semantics in the
>> domain and the services as well as tools, techniques, and approaches
>> to take advantage of that formalization. And of course, that is
>> exactly what the SWS community has been researching and continues to
>> research.
>> (This is also very much in line with a broader push by IBM research
>> to create a science of services. See the SSME site =>
>> http://www.research.ibm.com/ssme/)
>>
>> SHAMELESS PLUG: Peter and I and working to get Jim Spohrer to present
>> IBM's SSME research efforts to the ontolog-forum on December 8th)
>>
>> However, an apparent comment is that the SWS vision seems like a
>> daunting task to achieve; and it begs for pragmatic and evolutionary
>> approaches... hence some of the comments of making sure to align
>> closely with the Web services industry efforts and some of the
>> praises for the WSDL-S initiative.
>>
>> Nonetheless, maybe the various threads and approaches are necessary
>> for progress and we should question the current assumptions
>> underlying the Web services standards. The REST and Web 2.0 approach
>> to implementing Web services certainly seems to be doing just that
>> and getting good traction...
>>
>> Where do we go from here?
>>
>> Thoughts, suggestions, comments, questions, or feedback in general is
>> welcome.
>>
>> E. M. (Max) Maximilien, Ph.D.
>> IBM Almaden Research Center
>> San Jose, CA USA
>> maxim@xxxxxxxxxx
>> Homepage: http://maximilien.org
>>
>> "Peter P. Yim" <peter.yim@xxxxxxxx> wrote on 10/20/2005 06:16:50 PM:
>>
>> > We had an most wonderful virtual session today with Nicolas
>> > Rouquette from NASA/JPL who moderated the Discussion on "Semantic
>> > Web Service Ontology Standard".
>> >
>> > Thanks to our distinguished panel, which included David Martin
>> > (OWL-S), John Domingue (WSMO), Amit Sheth (WSDL-S) and Michael
>> > Gruninger (SWSF / FLOWS), and the experts in the audience, we
>> > collectively delved into the various perspectives and approaches
>> > being taken by the state-of-the-art researchers on the subject
>> > matter. We tried to make some sense of the current situation, and
>> > even suggested where things should possibly be heading. Please
>> > refer, again, to details at the session wiki page at
>> > ConferenceCall_2005_10_20 where the presented materials and a lot
>> > of relevant resources have now been posted for everyone's reference.
>> >
>> > The digitized (mp3) audio recording of the entire discussion has
>> > also been posted. As usual, this will be archived in our
>> > knowledge repository for reference and download by anyone
>> > interested. Additionally, for the next 10 days, telephone
>> > playback will also available. See details at:
>> >
>> http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2005_10_20#nidFQQ
>> >
>> > Thanks & regards. =ppy (04)
>> >
>> > P.S. Our next major events is scheduled for Thursday, Nov. 3,
>> > 2005, Mr. Rex Brooks from HumanMarkup.org will be moderating a
>> > Take-II (as a follow-up to our 2005.08.25 session) of the Panel
>> > Discussion on "Healthcare Informatics Landscapes, Roadmaps, and
>> > Blueprints: Towards a Business Case Strategy for Large Scale
>> > Ontology Projects". Please mark your calendars ... and, watch out
>> > for our announcements on these two events which should be coming
>> > out any moment now.
>> >
>> > P.P.S. In view of the fact that the National Center for
>> > Ontological Research (NCOR) will be having their Inaugural Event
>> > next Thursday (at Buffalo, NY), where a good number of our
>> > community members will be present at, we will NOT be having our
>> > regular weekly conference call that day (repeat, no call on
>> > 2005.10.27). So, talk to you again Thu 2005.11.03 =ppy
>> > --
>> >
>> >
>> > Peter P. Yim wrote Fri, 14 Oct 2005 10:04:29 -0700:
>> > > ...
>> > > *ANNOUNCEMENT*
>> > >
>> > > We are pleased to announce our Technical Discussion session
>> scheduled
>> > > for next Thursday, Oct. 20, 2005. The topic to be discussed will be:
>> > > "Semantic Web Service Ontology Standard". We are expecting a
>> > > distinguished panel and some of the top researchers and
>> practitioners at
>> > > the session. We will delve into the still divergent perspectives and
>> > > approaches being taken on the subject matter during this session.
>> > > Collectively, we will attempt to make some sense of the current
>> state of
>> > > affairs, and possibly suggest where things should be heading.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > *Conference call-in details*:
>> > >
>> > > Date: Thursday, Oct. 20, 2005
>> > > Start Time: 10:30am PDT / 1:30pm EDT / 17:30 UTC (World Time:
>> > > http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?
>> > month=10&day=20&year=2005&hour=10&min=30&sec=0&p1=224
>> > >
>> > > Session Duration: 2 Hours
>> > > Dial-in Number: +1-702-851-3330 (Las Vegas, Nevada, USA)
>> > > Participant Access Code: "686564#"
>> > > VNC shared-screen support available
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > * Topic: "*Semantic Web Service Ontology Standard*"
>> > >
>> > > * Moderator: Nicolas Rouquette (NASA/JPL)
>> > >
>> > > * Organizing Team:
>> > > o Nicolas Rouquette (NASA/JPL),
>> > > o John Domingue (KMI, UK), &
>> > > o E. Michael Maximilien (IBM)
>> > >
>> > > * Panelists:
>> > > o David Martin (SRI) - OWL-S
>> > > o John Domingue (KMI, UK) - WSMO
>> > > o Amit Sheth (U of Georgia) - WSDL-S, and
>> > > o Michael Gruninger (U of Toronto) - SWSF / FLOWS
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > *Refer to details on the session wiki page at:*
>> > > http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2005_10_20
>> > >
>> > > This will be a virtual session over an augmented conference call.
>> > > The entire session will be recorded and made available as open
>> content
>> > > under the prevailing Ontolog IPR policy (see:
>> > > http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid32).
>> > >
>> > > I look forward to having you at this open session. Please pass this
>> > > announcement along to those who might be interested to join us
>> too. All
>> > > are welcomed.
>> > >
>> > > RSVP by by emailing me at <peter.yim@xxxxxxxx> offline.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Regards. =ppy
>
>
> (012)
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