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Re: [ontology-summit] [ReusableContent] Partitioning the problem

To: "'Ontology Summit 2014 discussion'" <ontology-summit@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "Matthew West" <dr.matthew.west@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2014 09:15:53 -0000
Message-id: <00e601cf1ff7$6073f8f0$215bead0$@gmail.com>

Dear David, Ali, Amanda, and Kingsley,

Since this arose from considering ISO 15926, and there was at least an implicit criticism involved, let me just explain what we were expecting to happen.

 

We were not expecting others to use the thing ID in ISO 15926-2 to identify their internal data in their programs or even databases, although this is, of course, a choice that is available if it is convenient. We were expecting a situation in which different systems had pre-existing names for the different classes, and they were not about to change. One of the reasons we had support for multiple names was so we could provide a mapping of these names, minimising what was needed to be done within the existing systems. So we expected local copies of the RDL to include the local names of the classes for each system a names for those classes, with which systems used that name, so that translations could be done. It was anticipated that the RDL itself would be held in a database, and so a non-human readable ID would be adequate.

 

Of course things change in 10+ years, though we had similar discussions then, that I note are being had now. In the end you have to decide, nothing is likely to be right for everything.

Regards

Matthew West

 

From: ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ali SH
Sent: 02 February 2014 00:52
To: Ontology Summit 2014 discussion
Subject: Re: [ontology-summit] [ReusableContent] Partitioning the problem

 

Dear Amanda,

 

On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 6:59 PM, Amanda Vizedom <amanda.vizedom@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

 

I understand, but I think it is mostly a tooling problem. The tools do not use the appropriate formal language features. Humans shouldn't be writing or debugging SPARQL queries with only the concept ID visible, whether it is opaque or suggestive. Either way, there is extra lookup (out of the cognitive task space) and a greater likelihood of error than is really tenable. Unfortunately, that is mostly the state of the art in open/COTS tools, but the way to fix it isn't to make the IDs more suggestive (and conducive to error); it's to make the tools use the human-oriented features of the language when interfacing with humans. BTW, I specified state of the art in *COTS* tools, because I've seen a number of proprietary tools, developed for use within an company only, that don't make this same error. I'm perpetually frustrated that we don't have the same level of tooling in the open-source or COTS worlds. But it is not a coincidence that the companies in question have done well in developing semantic enterprise or web systems with those ontologies as components. They take their ontologies, and the processes concerning them, rather seriously. 

 

Yes. Fully agree here. In the example I cited, the tooling was just atrocious, and better tools would have addressed the problem.

 

I just don't think the solution is to treat the ontology language as more impoverished than it really is. We know there is far to go in improving tools, anyway. I'd say that one of the improvements should be to make tools that use the existing support for co-existing human-readability and machine-uniqueness.

 


Agreed!

Ali

 

Amanda

 

 

 


 

 


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(•`'·.¸(`'·.¸(•)¸.·'´)¸.·'´•) .,.,

 

 



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