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Re: [ontology-summit] The tools are not the problem (yet)

To: Ontology Summit 2014 discussion <ontology-summit@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: Michael Gruninger <gruninger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2014 17:40:16 -0500
Message-id: <20140125174016.Horde.ueM9txNdsPQFYAXGk3Sfxg5@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
This thread is has been diverging from the core topics of this year's  
Ontology Summit:
http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2014    (01)

If people want to continue the discussion, please move it over to the  
ontolog-forum.    (02)

Thank you,    (03)

Michael Gruninger
Co-Chair, Ontology Summit 2014    (04)


Quoting Paul Tyson <phtyson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>:    (05)

> On Sat, 2014-01-25 at 02:04 -0500, Adrian Walker wrote:
>> Hi Paul,
>>
>>
>> You wrote:
>>
>> "Communication between computer programs is under completely different
>> constraints...."
>>
>
> No, I didn't write that, McDermott did. I included it in the quote for
> the contrast with the previous paragraph. His ensuing paragraph, which I
> didn't quote, goes into a bit more detail about the differences.
>
>>
>> Agreed.  But step back a moment and look at the whole picture.  If
>> people cannot understand the communications between programs, then
>> errors of design or coding (or simply an unforseen circumstance) can
>> quickly wreak havoc.
>>
>
> Certainly for the human interface portion of systems, but certainly not
> for inter- and intra-program communication. Only software engineers must
> understand the latter, and their job is not to screw it up, and they
> have (or should have) tools and practices to handle the important names
> they use.
>
> One of McDermott's themes in this article was that naming things in your
> program (or ontology) with "meaningful" terms from your favorite
> "natural" language doesn't make them so--certainly not to the computer,
> and only partially (and unpredictably) will they mean what you intend to
> your human readers, as he explained in the first paragraph I quoted.
>
> Regards,
> --Paul
>
>>
>> Slides 4-7 of
>>
>>                        www.reengineeringllc.com/WikiSOA.pdf
>>
>>
>> illustrate this, and suggest a mitigation.
>>
>>
>>                                       -- Adrian
>>
>> Internet Business Logic
>> Online at www.reengineeringllc.com
>> Shared use is free, and there are no advertisements
>>
>> Adrian Walker
>> Reengineering
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 9:20 PM, Paul Tyson <phtyson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>>         Tim, thanks for this gem. It should be required reading for
>>         everyone
>>         working in ontologies or semantics. While it is packed with
>>         quotable
>>         bits, this chunk is especially pertinent. (Hint: substitute
>>         "ontology
>>         designer" for "language speaker").
>>
>>         "Language is only occasionally a medium of communication of
>>         information;
>>         even when it is, the ratio of information to packaging is low.
>>         The
>>         problem of a language speaker is to get the directed attention
>>         of an
>>         unprepared hearer and slide some information into his mind in
>>         a very
>>         short time. Since the major time sink is moving his mouth, the
>>         language
>>         sacrifices everything else to brevity, forcing the hearer to
>>         do much
>>         quick thinking to compensate. Furthermore, since the speaker
>>         doesn't
>>         quite know the organization of his hearer's mind, his phrasing
>>         of
>>         information and packaging must, except for the most
>>         stereotyped
>>         conversations, be an artwork of suggestiveness and insight.
>>           "Communication between computer programs is under completely
>>         different
>>         constraints...."
>>
>>         Regards,
>>         --Paul
>>
>>         On Thu, 2014-01-23 at 16:50 -0500, Tim Finin wrote:
>>         > The discussion of the symbols we use for namespaces reminds
>>         me of this
>>         > classic from nearly 40 years ago.
>>         >
>>         > McDermott, Drew. "Artificial intelligence meets natural
>>         stupidity." ACM
>>         > SIGART Bulletin 57 (1976): 4-9.
>>         >
>>          
>> 
>http://homepage.univie.ac.at/nicole.rossmanith/concepts/papers/mcdermott1976artificial.pdf
>>         >
>>
>>         >
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