>>what happens when the next person gets instantiated as the (same) bishop? (01)
> Here is one take on it (without mentioning 4D?)
> The role of bishop of Liverpool was used by Person A for time-period 100.
> That role may be used by Person B for the next time period 101. You
> may identify this triple relationship as you wish. (02)
We are talking about three things, not two, the corporation sole, the
role of bishop, and the person who occupies the role of bishop for a
given bishopric. (03)
The Bishopric is an intangible individual (like a corporation) that can
own property and has been granted authority to perform certain kinds
of acts. (04)
A Person while performing the role of Bishop, has the derived authority
to perform the actions which the Bishopric is permitted. This is the
same as any other corporate officer being permitted to act in the name
of her corporation when authorized. (05)
-- doug f (06)
> Regards,
> Gary
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 5:57 PM, Chris Partridge
> <partridgec@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> wrote:
>
>> It looks like you are describing something similar to a qua object,
>> which
>> has no identity.****
>>
>> Not sure we are talking about the same thing. Bishop in this case is a
>> particular bishop, such as the ‘Bishop of Liverpool’ – a corporation
>> sole,
>> a legal person. If we take the approach you suggest, what happens when
>> the
>> next person gets instantiated as the (same) bishop. In what sense is it
>> the
>> ‘same’ bishop – the bishop continues to own the land, etc.****
>>
>> Wouldn’t Occam’s razor prefer a simple agent.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Regards,****
>>
>> Chris ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *From:* ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
>> ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Gary Berg-Cross
>> *Sent:* 31 January 2012 21:47
>>
>> *To:* Ontology Summit 2012 discussion
>> *Subject:* Re: [ontology-summit] System Components****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Chris,
>>
>> Chris noted>I find it odd that a qua object can own property, have
>> responsibilities, declare war (Monarchs), etc. – which the person cannot
>> do.
>>
>> Thematic roles may be thought of as a set of types when objects
>> participate in processes. There is a general notion of the role, but it
>> gets instantiated in an object, such as a person who has a bishop role
>> and
>> thus participates in the bishop processes.****
>>
>> Gary Berg-Cross, Ph.D. ****
>>
>> gbergcross@xxxxxxxxx ****
>>
>> http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?GaryBergCross****
>>
>> NSF INTEROP Project ****
>>
>> http://www.nsf.gov/awardsearch/showAward.do?AwardNumber=0955816 ****
>>
>> SOCoP Executive Secretary****
>>
>> Knowledge Strategies ****
>>
>> Potomac, MD****
>>
>> 240-426-0770****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 1:05 PM, Chris Partridge <
>> partridgec@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:****
>>
>> You will find references to ‘bishop’ in the article.****
>>
>> I understand that Nicola and Giancarlo (and others) would regard
>> ‘bishop’
>> as a role, qua object, etc.****
>>
>> Historically this ‘role’ was introduced to ensure that legal title to
>> property given to the church remained with the bishop (corporation sole)
>> rather than inherited by his kin. It was then extended to monarchs.****
>>
>> I find it odd that a qua object can own property, have responsibilities,
>> declare war (Monarchs), etc. – which the person cannot do.****
>>
>> I also cannot see how this would work if the corporation sole did not
>> have
>> some kind of identity.****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> *From:* ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
>> ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Jack Ring
>> *Sent:* 31 January 2012 13:24****
>>
>>
>> *To:* Ontology Summit 2012 discussion
>> *Subject:* Re: [ontology-summit] System Components****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> I do not find 'role' mentioned in the given URL regarding 'sole'****
>>
>> Elsewhere in widipedia is "role posits the following about social
>> behaviour: #3. Roles are occupied by individuals, who are called
>> actors<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actors>
>> ."****
>>
>> Overall It seems that role specifies a location in a coordinate system,
>> not an operator such as actor.****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> Seems to me that the ****
>>
>> On Jan 31, 2012, at 1:50 AM, Chris Partridge wrote:****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> One sense, for another see e.g.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation_sole****
>>
>> ‘role’ covers a wide variety of meanings****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> *From:* ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
>> ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Jack Ring
>> *Sent:* 30 January 2012 23:33
>> *To:* Ontology Summit 2012 discussion
>> *Subject:* Re: [ontology-summit] System Components****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> According to David Taylor, Object Technology for Managers, role is
>> simply
>> an authorization to act, not the operator that acts. Operators inherit
>> roles then process operands accordingly. ****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> On Jan 30, 2012, at 3:50 PM, Nicola Guarino wrote:****
>>
>>
>>
>> ****
>>
>> Dear Matthew, ****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> just a few clarifications concerning my lab's work. Note that
>> I
>> am just trying to catch up with the (main points of the) discussion, and
>> I
>> am probably missing many things. I look forward to seeing the discussion
>> synthesised somewhere, in order to allow everybody to understand how we
>> progress.****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> Matthew West writes (answering to Giancarlo Guizzardi):****
>>
>> An alternative to this issue can be thought of by considering qua
>> individuals (e.g.http://www.loa.istc.cnr.it/Papers/KR04MasoloC.pdf)****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> MW: This is very similar to the 4D, but is relatively opaque, and gives
>> more individuals than if you adopt extensional identity in 4D. In this
>> case
>> playing multiple roles simultaneously does not give multiple states, but
>> one state playing multiple roles. A bit more elegant I think.****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> or perspectiles
>> http://www.loa.istc.cnr.it/Papers/BottazziFerrarioPerspectilesEuroCogSciv.pdf
>> ). ****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> MW: This seems to generalise the idea above a bit. One problem I have
>> with
>> both of these is that (if I understand it correctly) they treat social
>> and
>> other roles as purely classes. This gives me a problem if I want to
>> shake
>> the hand of the president, or start P101, because classes are abstract,
>> and
>> these are just things you can’t do to them. This is central to what I
>> find
>> unsatisfactory with these kinds of approaches. The situation is confused
>> by
>> there being several different meanings to role, from the participant
>> role
>> in an activity or state, to the component in a system, or social role
>> with
>> significant differences in character between them.****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> The second paper is still work in progress, while the first one is more
>> established. In both cases, however, for sure the approach does not only
>> admit roles as "pure classes", and new kinds of individuals are
>> introduced.
>> I defend a similar, although slightly different approach in the paper
>> below, which explicitly considers the parts replacement problem (among
>> other things) by introducing the notion of a "virtual individual" (NOTE
>> -
>> this is still a draft - comments welcome):****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7903842/Guarino-FunctionalPartsFunctionalRoles.pdf
>> ****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> Best,****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> Nicola****
>>
>>
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>>
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>
> --
> Gary Berg-Cross, Ph.D.
> gbergcross@xxxxxxxxx
> http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?GaryBergCross
> NSF INTEROP Project
> http://www.nsf.gov/awardsearch/showAward.do?AwardNumber=0955816
> SOCoP Executive Secretary
> Knowledge Strategies
> Potomac, MD
> 240-426-0770
>
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