An old saying in business is
"good ideas" that don't make money are
just "interesting ideas".
On 4 March 2011 18:00, Obrst, Leo J. <
lobrst@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
> FYI.
>
> In January 2011's Communications of the ACM
(which I just began reading), Phillip G. Armour has an
article entitled The Business of Software: Don't Bring
Me a Good Idea (
http://cacm.acm.org/magazines/2011/1/103193-dont-bring-me-a-good-idea/fulltext).
In this, he quotes Jason Kalich, Microsoft's general
manager of the Relationship Experience Division
(whatever that is), to the effect that:
>
> Don't bring him good ideas, nor cost savings.
Bring him revenue growth: "new value, new products,
new customers, new markets ..."
>
> Thanks,
> Leo
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Obrst, Leo J.
> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 5:52 PM
> To: Ontology Summit 2011 discussion
> Subject: RE: [ontology-summit] [strategy] Blank
Stares and Semantic Technology: A Semantic
Evangelist's ToolKit
>
> I think in general the Linked Open Data movement,
along with these relatively simple ontologies (FOAF,
GoodRelations, product ontology, etc.) will provide a
ladder (escalator?) for folks, towards understanding
the value of ontologies. Even though the Linked Data
movement represents a tamped-down Semantic Web,
probably folks have to understand structured data and
structural approaches (RDF + IRIs) before they realize
the limits of those, much like they have to go through
XML to realize its limits.
>
> Thanks,
> Leo
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:
ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Bart Gajderowicz
> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 4:06 PM
> To: Ontology Summit 2011 discussion
> Subject: Re: [ontology-summit] [strategy] Blank
Stares and Semantic Technology: A Semantic
Evangelist's ToolKit
>
> Let me clarify:
>
> BG:
> If we talk to the developers who know their own
systems
> inside-and-out, and allow them to incorporate
ontologies via tools...
>
> JS:
> Right. But no ontology today will help anybody
"build and maintain an
> application quickly."
>
>
> My apologies if I didn't explain myself. I'm not
proposing an ontology
> to develop tools, but instead tools that allow
developers to work WITH
> ontologies. Speaking their language essentially.
The reason I brought
> up open source is because I see why developers
and their companies
> have been adopting new open source technologies
successfully. Years
> back MVC was only know in the software
engineering context, now it's
> known by every developer (give or take).
>
> The more developers adopt them, the more
use-cases they produce.
> Companies have been seeing this trend and open
sourcing parts of their
> systems, or opening up API's to their data. This
only makes those
> technologies (and their owners) richer. To take
advantage, developers
> have been learning more and more about
data-mining and other ways to
> manage data. My background is in machine-learning
so I've seen how
> novice data users approach data-mining. I'd like
to see this happening
> for ontologies.
>
> Open Data is an opportunity to promote semantics
as well. The OpenData
> repositories, free and pay-per-use, are growing.
I'd love for them to
> start supporting the types of semantic tools
Bioportal and OOR
> provide. If they provide data via API's that
support semantics and
> allow incorporating them quickly, companies will
start seeing the
> benefit of viewing them through this "semantic
view".
>
> So two ways to help developer adopt ontologies
are:
>
> 1) Develop/promote the tools that allow them to
work with semantics in
> one shape or another. Whether it's OWL, RDF,
etc, these can be the
> steppingstones to the acceptance of ontologies
like SUMO and Cyc.
>
> 2) Give them only the parts of ontologies they
need and can work with
> right away. Produce subsets of ontologies to
solve a particular
> problem in manageable chunks. As simple as they
are, FOAF and
> GoodRelations are great examples, and relate to
topics their adopters
> understand, personal relationships between people
and companies. Let's
> promote the technologies people are using to
incorporate these
> ontologies.
>
>
> On 4 March 2011 15:10, John F. Sowa <
sowa@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
>> Bart,
>>
>> The main point I was trying to make is that
you can't measure
>> the result of an ontology by itself.
>>
>> For example, you could take an old mainframe
application that
>> drives a "green screen", write a new front
end, and get a web
>> application. But you can't use an ontology
to upgrade any kind
>> of running application. You have to start
from scratch without
>> any guarantee that the result will do
anything useful.
>>
>>> It's not about promoting specific
ontologies, or even ontologies
>>> in general. It's about promoting the
tools to use with ontologies
>>> first, and for this audience specifically
promoting Cyc or SUMO
>>> is what creates the blank stares in the
first place.
>>
>> Historical interlude: Back in the 1990s, Cyc
was supported by
>> some large corporations and gov't agencies.
They all employed
>> people who had PhDs in comp. sci., even with
specialties in AI.
>> There were no blank stares, because they had
already bought
>> Doug Lenat's sales pitch.
>>
>> Every one of those groups had a complete set
of Cyc software and
>> the full ontology. I talked with some of the
people at those
>> companies and agencies. But none of their
employees were able
>> to develop a single deployed application.
One of them said
>> "Everybody who spent any significant time
working with Cyc
>> was let go, and I don't believe that's a
coincidence."
>>
>> I admit that Cyc has improved quite a bit
during the past decade.
>> But one of the people at a location where Cyc
is used said that
>> there is a "huge disconnect" between the
skills required to work
>> with Cyc and the skills required for any
other software.
>>
>>> Ease of development is what the Ruby on
Rails framework provides.
>>> It's very popular only because it allows
developers to build and
>>> maintain an application quickly.
>>
>> Right. But no ontology today will help
anybody "build and maintain
>> an application quickly."
>>
>>
>> What tools? Where is the ontology equivalent
of "Ruby on Rails"?
>>
>> John
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Bart Gajderowicz, MSc.
> Ryerson University
>
http://www.scs.ryerson.ca/~bgajdero
>
>
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--
Bart Gajderowicz, MSc.
Ryerson University
http://www.scs.ryerson.ca/~bgajdero
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