Hi Ravi I need to learn more about the ODM activities - is this related to the meeting and OMG work discussed at NSF a couple weeks ago? Regards Deborah
DEBORAH MACPHERSON, CSI CCS, AIA
Specifications and Research Cannon Design 1100 Wilson Boulevard, Suite 2900 Arlington, Virginia 22209 Direct Line 703 907 2353 4 Digit Dial 2353 dmacpherson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx cannondesign.com ü Please consider the environment before printing this email. From: ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of ravi sharma
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 12:16 AM
To: Ontology Summit 2011 discussion
Subject: Re: [ontology-summit] [BULK] Re: [BULK] Re: Invitation to a brainstorming call for the 2011 Ontology Summit I assumed you might be following the ODM activities. ODM efforts allow for interoperation bet ween RDF OWL and MOF UML. Please refer to Elisa Kendall (Chair), Evan Wallace and our work on ODM under OMG. On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 9:55 AM, MacPherson, Deborah <dmacpherson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Hi Cecil
Actually I believe someone else said ”You can translate any OWL ontology to UML, but not vice-versa". I've only been talking about the NIEM data model and applications to the building industry
Regards
Deborah
DEBORAH MACPHERSON, CSI CCS, AIA
Specifications and Research
Cannon Design
1100 Wilson Boulevard, Suite 2900
Arlington, Virginia 22209
Direct Line 703 907 2353
4 Digit Dial 2353
dmacpherson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
cannondesign.com
ü Please consider the environment before printing this email.
-----Original Message-----
Subject: [BULK] Re: [ontology-summit] [BULK] Re: Invitation to a brainstorming call for the 2011 Ontology Summit
Importance: Low
Deborah,
Can you explain your statement "You can translate any OWL ontology to UML, but not vice-versa."
The OMG Ontology Definition Metamodel specification seems to contradict your statement. Table 16.12 of the specification lists the OWL features with no equivalent UML feature as :
Thing, global properties, autonomous individual' allValuesFrom, someValuesFrom, SymmetricProperty, TransitiveProperty, Classes as instances, disjointWith, complementOf
Cecil Lynch
-----Original Message-----
From: ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of MacPherson, Deborah
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 5:48 AM
To: Ontology Summit 2011 discussion
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [ontology-summit] [BULK] Re: Invitation to a brainstorming call for the 2011 Ontology Summit
These all sound like good points to include in the communique and announcement for the summit theme
DEBORAH MACPHERSON, CSI CCS, AIA
Specifications and Research
Cannon Design
1100 Wilson Boulevard, Suite 2900
Arlington, Virginia 22209
Direct Line 703 907 2353
4 Digit Dial 2353
dmacpherson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
cannondesign.com
ü Please consider the environment before printing this email.
-----Original Message-----
From: ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John F. Sowa
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 6:53 PM
To: ontology-summit@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [BULK] Re: [ontology-summit] Invitation to a brainstorming call for the 2011 Ontology Summit
Importance: Low
Deborah, Matthew, Ahsan, Steve, Ali, Nicola, and Jack,
DMcP:
> In your view is it even possible for model-driven exchange
> environments to succeed without including ontologies?
MW:
> I would argue that databases are willy nilly ontologies, since they
> make statements about the sorts of things there are, and some rules
> that govern them. Perhaps more importantly a database can be a very
> suitable implementation environment for an ontology, depending on what
> your purposes are.
I agree with Matthew. In the 1970s, DB designers were discussing very similar issues about ontology that we are talking about here.
Type hierarchies, E-R diagrams, and Petri nets were used in the 1960s, they were adopted by the DB community, and they are part of the UML collection. In fact, UML diagrams are probably the most widely used notation for ontologies on planet earth. UML plus OCL (the object- constraint language) provides a *superset* of OWL, but in a much more readable notation.
The programming community is already familiar with UML diagrams, which provide representations for type hierarchies, for the type constraints and cardinality constraints on relations, for time dependencies in activity diagrams, etc. If more expressive power is needed, UML also includes OCL as a general-purpose notation for FOL.
That is far more expressive power in a far more readable format than OWL. You can translate any OWL ontology to UML, but not vice-versa.
AM:
> What do you think about SKOS-XL instead OWL for building ontology?
I have no objection to anybody using whatever tools they find useful.
But it shows that OWL is a very difficult language to learn and use effectively. Much simpler languages supplemented with diagrams would be very attractive to many users.
SW:
> Would that I had a nickel for every time I've seen someone
> misinterpret a "controlled English" sentence.
I'd be delighted to take that bet, provided that you give me a penny for every time I've seen somebody misinterpret a statement in some formal language (logic, programming language, etc.).
Please note that COBOL is a rather poor example of what can be done with English-like syntax, but it was the most widely used programming language during the second half of the 20th century.
SW:
> My conclusion, then, is that end users are likely to understand the
> benefits of ontologies well before programmers.
Programmers and database administrators understood the need for ontologies since the 1970s. But they called them conceptual schemas, structured analysis and design, etc.
SW:
> The model in question is IDEF1-X. Information exchange is based on
> database replication...
That's ontology! Note Matthew's comment and my response.
AH:
> The argument I've used (with limited, but notable success) with the
> programmers around me, is that an ontology can also serve as a
> contract between the software development team and each module.
I agree. And the people who were designing software development tools in the 1970s used very similar arguments. The only missing jargon was the word 'ontology'. Instead, they used terms like 'specification' or 'conceptual schema' or even 'IDEF1X'.
AH:
> Fleshing out these different roles would be instrumental in helping
> focus and identifying the different types of supporting arguments.
MB:
> Another way of framing this is that every application has an ontology
> anyway. The question is how it is framed, if at all. Are the meanings
> of terms resident only in the head of the developer, or in some
> logical model with written term definitions (weak semantics) or in a
> formal language which > grounds the meanings of terms with reference
> to some logical formalism?
I agree with both of those statements. And I encourage anybody who has been using OWL to take another look at UML. For most of what they do with OWL, they could specify much more clearly with UML.
SW:
> It's probably better to think of every application having multiple
> views of data. The view that is presented to the user may differ
> significantly from the view that's in memory, which in turn may differ
> from the view that's persisted.
I strongly agree. And that's another argument for UML as a better ontology language than OWL. The various diagrams give you multiple views of the subject. But OWL is designed to enforce tunnel vision.
SW:
> The case to make is that the OWL model of information is more "natural"
> than the relational model, so the application developer spends less
> time and effort translating a business model to OWL than to SQL.
SQL happens to be a very primitive version of the relational model.
Ted Codd was not happy about the SQL version of relational semantics.
In 1979, Codd and Date made a strong case for adding a type hierarchy in the RM/T extensions. In fact, I assumed a type hierarchy in my first published article on conceptual graphs in 1976:
http://www.jfsowa.com/pubs/cg1976.pdf
Conceptual Graphs for a Database Interface
NG:
> Deciding how much effort to put in developing a particular ontology is
> a crucial choice, and it is very important to distinguish the cases
> where a proper ontological analysis pays off, and is indeed a crucial
> aspect of success, from those where a "lightweight" approach is sufficient.
I agree. In fact, there is a great deal of informal analysis that must be done before it's possible to write any kind of formal specification.
JR:
> How about engaging them in a survey to estimate the cost of "IT Babel"
> in their respective enterprises? We might even mention the trillion
> dollar elephant in the room --- insecure systems.
That is indeed a serious problem. People have been talking about it since the 1970s. The only thing new is that the word 'ontology' has been thrown into the pot. But talking has not solved the problems.
John
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Thanks.
Ravi
(Dr. Ravi Sharma)
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