the notion that duplicate data and other confusions leading to
'considerable problems in IT systems' is often too simplistic. in
specific cases we looked at we found that seemingly duplicated data in
large organizations where only 'very close' in semantics but on detailed
inspections, different semantics were mandated by some law (or similar
regulations). simple examples: parcels considered forest (Austria has
about 6 legal definitions, not all of them require trees on the land,
and some allow land with tree to be 'non-forest), buildings (what is the
minimal size, underground facilities included etc.). (01)
to capture these complexities and to find ways to relate data in such
slightly different data collections is difficult - independent of the
language used. i believe formal ontologies help, but i have not yet
found a low cognitive complexity formalism for it. (02)
andrew frank (03)
-
Prof. Dr. sc.techn. Andrew U. Frank +43 1 58801 12710 direct
Geoinformation, TU Wien +43 1 58801 12700 office
Gusshausstr. 27-29 +43 1 55801 12799 fax
1040 Wien Austria +43 676 419 25 72 mobil (04)
On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 15:56 -0700, Jack Ring wrote:
> How about pointing out to them that the considerable problems and barriers
>they experience with their IT systems are due to the several hundred or
>thousand computer programs devised by people who did not have a common
>semantic context then compound the situation by replicating data bases which
>thereafter are never in synch? How about engaging them in a survey to estimate
>the cost of "IT Babel" in their respective enterprises? We might even mention
>the trillion dollar elephant in the room --- insecure systems.
> Jack Ring
>
> On Dec 14, 2010, at 2:24 PM, Barry Smith wrote:
>
> > I agree with Steve on this
> > BS
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Steve Ray <steve.r.ray@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>wrote:
> >> I was relieved to see your message, Todd. My strong sense is that we are
>not yet to the point where the general commercial user accepts the use of
>ontologies of any kind. Therefore, we need to get past that basic hurdle
>before we start trying to make the case for a more sophisticated treatment. We
>need strong examples, quantified in concrete terms.
> >> (Just my opinion, of course)
> >>
> >> - Steve
> >>
> >> Steven R. Ray, Ph.D.
> >> Distinguished Research Fellow
> >> Carnegie Mellon University
> >> NASA Research Park
> >> Building 23 (MS 23-11)
> >> P.O. Box 1
> >> Moffett Field, CA 94305-0001
> >> Email: steve.r.ray@xxxxxxxxxx
> >> Phone: (650) 587-3780
> >> Cell: (202) 316-6481
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>[mailto:ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Todd J Schneider
> >> Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 7:20 AM
> >> To: Ontology Summit 2011 discussion
> >> Cc: Ontology Summit 2011 discussion;
>ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Subject: Re: [ontology-summit] Invitation to a brainstorming call for the
>2011 Ontology Summit
> >>
> >> Nicola,
> >>
> >> While I agree with your premise and its value (and promote
> >> this aspect), there is still great reluctance to make use
> >> of semantic technologies in general and ontologies and
> >> their development paradigms in particular.
> >>
> >> So, as part of making the business case for the use of
> >> semantic technologies and ontologies I suggest starting
> >> with the general business case of why to use ontologies,
> >> focusing on data models (something familiar and the cause
> >> of many systems and software problems), how ontologies
> >> and semantic technologies can greatly aid in these areas,
> >> then bring out the specific capabilities that provide
> >> such aid (e.g., ontological analysis), then how these
> >> capabilities are already used (to some extent) in
> >> current practices (i.e., why there shouldn't be great
> >> trepidation in their use).
> >>
> >> Thoughts?
> >>
> >> Todd
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From:
> >> Nicola Guarino <guarino@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >> To:
> >> Ontology Summit 2011 discussion <ontology-summit@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Date:
> >> 12/14/2010 07:01 AM
> >> Subject:
> >> Re: [ontology-summit] Invitation to a brainstorming call for the 2011
> >> Ontology Summit
> >> Sent by:
> >> ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Dear colleagues,
> >>
> >> I also agree very much with John and Matthew concerning
> >> the importance of high quality ontologies, and on their observation that
> >> the quest for high quality data models in software engineering definitely
> >> reflects a sensitivity to important ontological aspects much higher than
> >> what we find in people just focusing on ontology languages.
> >>
> >> In the light of this, I suggest to specify a bit more the
> >> overall theme of our Summit, which in my opinion could be "Making the case
> >> for ontological analysis" instead of "Making the case for ontology". An
> >> alternative could be "Making the case for high-quality ontologies".
> >>
> >> The reason for this proposal should be self-evident, I
> >> believe. Deciding how much effort to put in developing a particular
> >> ontology is a crucial choice, and it is very important to distinguish the
> >> cases where a proper ontological analysis pays off, and is indeed a
> >> crucial aspect of success, from those where a "lightweight" approach is
> >> sufficient.
> >>
> >> Just brainstorming...
> >>
> >> Talk to you soon,
> >>
> >> Nicola
> >>
> >> On 9 Dec 2010, at 16:03, John F. Sowa wrote:
> >>
> >>> Dear Matthew and Peter,
> >>>
> >>> MW:
> >>>> ... my forthcoming book “Developing High Quality Data Models”.
> >> Substitute
> >>>> ontology for data model and the same argument applies. The benefits
> >> come
> >>>> from improving and automating decision making through fit-for-purpose
> >>>> information to support those decisions.
> >>>
> >>> I very strongly agree. Software engineers have been doing ontology
> >>> (avant la lettre, as they say) for a very long time. And much of that
> >>> work has been very good -- sometimes much better than what people are
> >>> doing with so-called ontology languages.
> >>> _________________________________________________________________
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