Frank, (01)
> [FG] I”m a bit confused about what you choose to enforce or not enforce. (02)
[ppy] I regret that you are still confused. (03)
As you may have observed, I only very seldomly try to interrupt a
discussion. However, when a person tries to bring up his/her own work,
that is not "open" on this forum, for (potentially) in-depth
discussion, all sorts of "red lights" go off ... and your statement:
"I’d be very interested in any constructive feedback and/or
criticisms" did just that (from the <Frank.Guerino@xxxxxxxxx> Jul 13,
2014 at 7:23 AM PDT message.) (04)
... if someone from Microsoft had come here and made a post to ask
Ontolog members to help provide feedback or criticisms on a
proprietary Microsoft product, I would have done the same. (05)
I think enough has been said on both sides, so we, at least, know
where each of us (you and I) stand on this matter. I will take your
word that you are not "out to advertise." ... If you wish to continue
the conversation with me, let's take that offline. (06)
Regards. =ppy
-- (07)
On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 7:05 AM, Frank Guerino <Frank.Guerino@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Hi Peter,
>
> Please know that I do not wish turn this into any form of a defensive
> argument as my intent is not to cause any grief nor is it to advertise
> commercial products or services. My response to John was to answer his
> questions to the best of my ability and not to promote what I or our
> companies do. Any statement that my response is anything other than an
> attempt to properly answer his question is false.
>
> I’d like to respectfully point out that I”m a bit confused about what you
> choose to enforce or not enforce. For example, you appear to be
> inconsistent in the enforcement of your policies when it comes to the many
> group members that regularly point to proprietary copyrighted material, both
> with material that is their own as well as published by others.
>
> I also respectfully disagree with you that pointing to “examples”, such as
> in the case of my Predicate Collections post, is a violation of your rules.
> For example, in order to comply with your interpretations of the policies,
> I’d have to build an entire application and publish all its source code to
> the community for open consumption (consisting of hundreds of thousands or
> even millions of lines of code), only to show a single simple singular
> example of how some small conceptual feature might work. This does not seem
> logical or productive, especially since this community does not manage
> source code applications that do what our own software does nor would I
> expect it to be your intent to do so, as we go far beyond ontologies and
> related subject matters.
>
> Again, I apologize for any grief this may be causing you but I am not out to
> advertise.
>
> My Best,
>
> Frank
> --
> Frank Guerino, Chairman
> The International Foundation for Information Technology (IF4IT)
> http://www.if4it.com
> 1.908.294.5191 (M)
>
>
>
>
>
> On 7/13/14, 9:12 PM, "Peter Yim" <peter.yim@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> Hi Frank,
>
>
> The issues at hand are:
>
> 1. your posts ( like:
> http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/2014-07/msg00050.html &
> http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/2014-07/msg00055.html )
> are in breach of the ONTOLOG members' contribution guideline, where it
> is specifically stated that:
> //
> ... unless specifically requested/solicited by other community
> member(s), please make sure any commercial- or self-promotion material
> or reference are strictly limited to one's namesake page or a short
> signature block, and nowhere else as far as our open collaborative
> work environment is concerned.
> //
>
> 2. while you may use your own definition to interpret "open" when your
> readers are interacting with you on your IF4IT.COM site, you are
> expected to use ONTOLOG's definition of "open" or "free" ( please see
> again:
> http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/2014-07/msg00052.html#nid03
> ) when interacting with other Ontolog members in the Ontolog CWE
> (collaborative work environment).
>
> 3. as previously mentioned, your "Open and Sanctioned Use Policy" is
> neither "Open" nor "free" technology, nor is that consistent with
> Ontolog's "open content" policy
>
> 4. ... and hence, my advice is that you should consider refraining
> from posting your work here, les you risk nullifying your own
> licensing policy (as a principal of IF4IT.com) or breaching the
> Ontolog Open IPR Policy (as a member of the Ontolog community.)
>
> 5. I would also note that "CIM" (the Company I am involved in, which
> has been donating some of the Ontolog infrastructure and services) has
> nothing to do with the IPR conversation here. This is all about
> Ontolog members' Contribution Guidelines and Policy, and the respect
> for such.
>
>
> Regards. =ppy
>
> Peter Yim
> Member of the ONTOLOG Board of Trustees
> --
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 13, 2014 at 4:17 PM, Frank Guerino <Frank.Guerino@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Peter,
>
> Yes, I do remember our conversations and I’m aware of Ontolog’s posted
> policies. Thanks for the reminders and the links. I'll certainly go
> through them, again, just to be sure of terms.
>
> Please know that, like many other participating CIM members, I’m very
> careful and go out of my way to “not" post anything that is considered
> proprietary to the enterprises I represent or any other organization, for
> that matter. And, I recognize that what I do discuss openly, in this or any
> other community, is a matter of open conversation. I do my best to be very
> careful in separating anything that could be considered legal intellectual
> capital from general conversation.
>
> Also, I’m sure you're fully aware that referenced citations, quotes, and
> links to materials and examples which originate and exist offsite and that
> are not already original works of CIM do not, by law, constitute original
> works of CIM, even if CIM’s documented policies were to state otherwise
> (which I don’t believe they do).
>
> As for the IF4IT's published definition of “open” and how it pertains to
> Foundation published open material, in short, “open" means that people and
> enterprises can use the material for “themselves" but simply cannot
> interpret our brands or our works as their own nor can they directly profit
> from them without explicit consent from the IF4IT. We go out of our way to
> separate what is “open” from what is “for profit."
>
> Please know that when I publish links to to things like visual examples, I
> know and am very clear on the fact that the visual representation of those
> examples are not considered intellectual capital because, by law, no one can
> claim “Look and Feel” to be intellectual capital, as per law suits such as
> Apple vs. Microsoft. And, if people wish to copy such look and feel, I wish
> them the best in doing so and I’m even happy to help them do so, when I can,
> as we publish visualization source code to the open source community via
> GitHub (we use d3js.org).
>
> If there’s any concern or ambiguity, please always feel free to reach out
> and ask, as I will always do my best to help. In the mean time, please know
> that I truly appreciate the Ontolog community and its members and that I
> will share whatever I can (although, I find that there are far smarter
> people than me in this community).
>
> My Best,
>
> Frank
> --
> Frank Guerino, Chairman
> The International Foundation for Information Technology (IF4IT)
> http://www.if4it.com
> 1.908.294.5191 (M)
>
>
>
> On 7/13/14, 12:21 PM, "Peter Yim" <peter.yim@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> Hello Frank,
>
>
> I believe we had communicated about this before (ref.
> http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-admin/2011-08/msg00002.html and
> some of the offline exchange we had around that time) ...
>
> I just looked through your "Terms of Use"[1] quickly, and can conclude
> that your "Open and Sanctioned Use Policy" is neither "Open" (as in
> the "Open Source Definition"[2], nor "Free" (as in the "Free Software
> Definition[3]"), nor is that consistent with either the OpenContent
> License:OPL-1.0[4] or the Creative Commons CC-BY-SA-3.0
> (Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0) License[5].
>
> I assume you are fully aware of the ONTOLOG contribution policy[6],
> and by posting about your work and inviting contributions to it here,
> you may nullify your own licensing restrictions or, at the least,
> breach our Ontolog Open IPR Policy.
>
> Please, again, review our (Ontolog members') Contribution Guidelines
> and Policy[0], and in particular, our Open IPR Policy[6], and ensure
> your posts are consistent with them.
>
> Ref.
> [0] http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid3LHV
> [1] http://www.if4it.com/LICENSES/master_agreement.html
> [2] http://opensource.org/osd-annotated
> [3] http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
> [4] http://opencontent.org/opl.shtml
> [5] http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/
> [6] http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid32
>
>
> Thanks & regards. =ppy
> --
>
>
>
>
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