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Re: [ontolog-forum] Requesting Opinions on the Benefits of Predicates as

To: ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: tknorr <tknorr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 10:09:33 -0700
Message-id: <53988D4D.2050407@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Frank,

We use triplets (subject, relation, object) where the relation is a concept of the same kind as subject and object, just as you describe in your plan. It has a lot of advantages.

Not being tied to a fixed set of relations is the biggest.

When you work with this, in the way we ended up, you can isolate categories of relations. We built code extensively around these categories and it can be exploited to generate/suggest relations.

Categories we isolated so far:

Syntactical

We compose complex concepts using a 'syntactical' category with the concepts: head, modifier (variations), pre-postpositions, … Some of this might not make sense for you, but we actually generate the concept descriptions automatically by parsing the semantic network of a concept and generate the language translation for it.

A side note here, the head-relation defaults as the type-of, but can be overwritten is need be.

Semantic

While all these relations are somewhat semantic there is a category that fits the name best. The classic type-of and part-of are in here but also e.g 'for the purpose of' which is a composite. Prepositions and postpositions play a big role here and are optional on their respective ends of the relation. Sometimes the preposition is the only relation, it might have a semantic net attached that specified exactly how it is meant to be interpreted.

Type defining

We do have currently a set of relations that are specifically used to define types but I suspect they will disappear in the future because they can be automatically derived. We use them to some extent for modelling and to generate code (e.g. xsd schemas) to import structured data. The relations here are the typical optional/mandatory single/multiple value/feature combinations.

Our composites can inherit both values and features from their types, and the type by default is the head of a phrase.

Watch out for knowledge definition loops! They are most likely the reason your system has a 'headache'.

Tom Knorr

The NeuroCollective

On 06/11/2014 09:30 AM, Philip Jackson wrote:
Will a predicate C be able to link two nodes A and B that may themselves be predicates?
 
It seems like this would be another useful side-effect of making predicates first-class citizens...
 
> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 09:20:31 -0700
> From: jackpark@xxxxxxxxx
> To: ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Requesting Opinions on the Benefits of Predicates as Nodes
>
> I see an additional benefit, but not necessarily affiliated with the
> way you describe an 'implicit node' -- where a predicate appears,
> still, to be a second-class citizen in the graph.
>
> Let me explain.
>
> Mostly, it would seem that a predicate in a triple performs the task
> of linking subject and object; it has no other reason for being there
> other than to complete the assertion, e.g. A relates to B.
>
> But, consider this: if a specific *instance* of a predicate exists as
> a connective between two objects, then it can be said to carry the
> full semantics of the assertion itself. The instance is not an
> 'implicit' node: it is a vertex like any other in a graph.
>
> If I say: A cause B, then the node which is the 'cause' predicate can
> carry the full semantics of the triple itself. It's not just your
> father's predicate anymore; it's a first class citizen.
>
> Why do I care?
>
> Consider that said predicate has entails a possibly complex biography.
> Who discovered it? What evidence supports it? What debates are in play
> about it?
>
> I can't assign or otherwise link that biography to either A or B, but
> only to the specific predicate that ties them together.
>
> If I might add, I will assert that predicates as first class citizens
> is perhaps the only difference between an RDF graph and a topic map.
> I've built topic maps with RDF using the BigData RDF store; they work
> just fine, can import and export from, e.g. OWL documents, but with a
> loss of information when the topic map becomes OWL.
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 8:59 AM, Frank Guerino <Frank.Guerino@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > For a number of years, we've been working with Data Driven Synthesis as a
> > means of rapidly generating Data Networks/Graphs and the Knowledge
> > Constructs (e.g. Library Catalogs, Indexes, Taxonomies, Visualizations,
> > etc.) that help humans make easier & better sense of them (If interested,
> > see NOUNZ). Like many other Graph representations, we use "triples" or
> > "triplets" to help represent Semantic Relationships, where descriptive
> > Predicates are used as the binding between Subject Nodes and Object Nodes.
> >
> > To date, we've only treated Subjects and Objects as "Nodes" but we've always
> > known that we can (and have planned to) implement and treat Predicates as a
> > special type of "implicit" Node, as well. (Time didn’t' allow us to get to
> > doing so, until now.) We believe that doing so grants users of Graphs
> > certain benefits. We've identified three (3)…
> >
> > #1: The first and obvious advantage is that users can now enter a Graph from
> > any Edge/Predicate as easily as they can enter from any Node, and start to
> > traverse the Graph based on that point of entry.
> >
> > #2: The second advantage of treating Predicates as Nodes is that a Predicate
> > can now be used as an "Index" or "Pointer" that allows users to quickly find
> > all Nodes which are tied to said Predicate (or any Predicates that match
> > certain traits). In other words, it's a way of asking the Graph to quickly
> > identify all Nodes that are connected to a specific Edge/Link/Predicate (or
> > any of a common set of Predicate traits). This means that, in addition to
> > being able to ask "Node-oriented" questions of the Graph, you can now also
> > ask "Predicate/Edge-oriented" questions of the Graph, as well. This leads
> > to even more complex scenarios of being able to ask questions of, both,
> > Nodes and Edges.
> >
> > #3: The third advantage (based on the second) is that traversal of a Graph
> > can be even quicker, leading to even shorter paths, because instead of only
> > traversing a Graph from Node-to-Node-to-Node, through Nodes, users can now
> > traverse from any Edge/Predicate to any other Edge/Predicate, through
> > Edges/Predicates.
> >
> > My question to the Community: Aside from the above three, do you see any
> > other benefits that we're missing?
> >
> > Thanks for your help.
> >
> > My Best,
> >
> > Frank
> > --
> > Frank Guerino, Chairman
> > The International Foundation for Information Technology (IF4IT)
> > http://www.if4it.com
> > 1.908.294.5191 (M)
> >
> >
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