On 7/27/13 10:06 AM, deddy wrote:
> Michael -
>
>> your example becomes more and more specific and challenging :-) Yes, if all
>> you have is the code, you are in trouble and SW technologies are not a magic
>> bullet for solving it.
>>
> Welcome to the world of legacy systems. (01)
By "legacy systems" you mean a subjective tangled mess rife with
contextual fluidity? (02)
>
> I hope against hope that somewhere in the SW stack of tools there just might
>be something to help with
> understanding legacy systems. (03)
Yes, they help since "meaning" is critical to "understanding" anything.
Thus, you can map out a tangled mess, rife with contextual fluidity, by
decomposing the aforementioned mess into: (04)
1. entities
2. entity relationships
3. entity relationship roles
4. entity relations . (05)
You can achieve the above with computer and human oriented languages.
>
> It's a very SMALL hope. (06)
I have big hopes, the challenge lies in getting everyone to look at the
task like they would a jigsaw puzzle game where every resource is a
puzzle-piece, as exemplified by the World Wide Web. (07)
>
> What I do see is SW creating yet another tangled layer of undocumented,
>poorly understood systems. (08)
Of course not. (09)
>
>
> I've been attending monthly MIT SW meetings for 4+ years. Once, by chance, I
>did catch TBL himself saying to the
> audience that "Semantic Web" was a clever marketing label, but that in
>reality, "linked data" would be a more
> appropriate description since there really isn't anything special about
>semantics in the SW. (010)
Hmm.. (011)
I think TimBL was trying to unravel the obvious fact that the Web he
envisioned was a read-write global graph comprised of: (012)
1. entities -- things
2. entity relationships -- statements describing things
3. entity roles -- relationship roles e.g., subject, predicate, and object
4. entity relations -- sets of relationships scoped to common predicates
5. relation semantics -- exploitation of First-order logic as the
foundation for relation semantics. (013)
In the context of the World Wide Web, HTTP URIs would serve as the
denotation (naming) mechanism for the items above. (014)
The World Wide Web was always about a global entity relationship graph
[1] where humans and machines would be able to comprehend entity
relationship semantics [2]. Basically, the fidelity or entity
relationship semantics of this global entity relationship graph would
evolve (continuously) over time via crowd-sourcing. (015)
>
>
> As you may have noticed, my passion is for a process—tool assisted, but
>requiring human knowledge at the beginnings
> —to extract & make formal the MENSA_FL --> MEssage Notify Stop Action Flag
>--> "a collection of dunning flags"
> process. (016)
We (certainly I) just need to find the right way to articulate that we
(You and I) are on the same page. At the top of this response, what I
outlined are steps that fall into your "beginnings" view point i.e.,
that domain experts and systems analysts MUST be key participants in the
process. That's totally different from the typical pattern where
programmers (short on domain expertise and industry experience)
generally make things up as they experiment and play with the latest and
greatest programming language, where the real focus is parsing
capabilities, language idioms, and data representation formats etc.. (017)
To conclude, we just need to align our own entity relationship semantics
as we discuss these matters, en route to common understanding :-) (018)
Links: (019)
[1] http://bit.ly/10Y9FL1 -- Proof that Relationship Semantics & Linked
Data were part of original World Wide Web design and proposal
[2] http://bit.ly/16EVFVG -- Illustrating the loose-coupling of
Identifiers (e.g., URIs), Structured Data, and Logic exemplified by Web
Architecture
[3] http://slidesha.re/18CtxGK -- Blogic Presentation by Pat Hayes. (020)
Kingsley (021)
>
>
>
> Does "dunning" have a German meaning? It means the process to send someone a
>series of (increasingly firm) bills to
> collect a debt. R.G. Dun was an early (1840s) credit rating business here in
>the States & eventually merged to become
> Dun & Bradstreet, which survives to this day.
>
> ______________________
> David Eddy
> Babson Park, MA
> 781-455-0949
>
>
>> -------Original Message-------
>> From: Michael Brunnbauer <brunni@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: [ontolog-forum] <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Amazon vs. IBM: Big Blue meets match in
>battle for the cloud
>> Sent: 2013-07-27 08:50
>>
>>
>> Hello David,
>>
>> your example becomes more and more specific and challenging :-) Yes, if all
>> you have is the code, you are in trouble and SW technologies are not a
>magic
>> bullet for solving it.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Michael Brunnbauer
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 10:44:17AM -0400, David Eddy wrote:
>> > Michael -
>> >
>> > On Jul 26, 2013, at 9:13 AM, Michael Brunnbauer wrote:
>> >
>> > > distributed in the heads of two experts for one or the other system.
>> >
>> > Let us assume the experts are not readily available...
>> >
>> > - I'm too green to formulate a coherent question
>> >
>> > - experts do not like to be pestered by clueless newbie questions
>> >
>> > - experts are simply too busy
>> >
>> >
>> > The "knowledge" that has trickled down to me is as most technical
>documentation severely stripped of useful
>> > context & content.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > once you have discovered that M0760 and MENSA-FL are the same
>> >
>> > That's the hard part... how are M0760 & MENSA-FL discovered to be the
>same?
>> >
>> > Remember, we're looking at a data structure with 1700 data elements &
>analysts/programmers are pawing over
> this stuff on a regular basis.
>> >
>> > In theory there should be documentation... but situations like this
>typically come down to: "the code is the
> documentation."
>> >
>> > - David
>> >
>>
>> >
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>> >
>>
>> --
>> ++ Michael Brunnbauer
>> ++ netEstate GmbH
>> ++ Geisenhausener Straße 11a
>> ++ 81379 München
>> ++ Tel +49 89 32 19 77 80
>> ++ Fax +49 89 32 19 77 89
>> ++ E-Mail brunni@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>> ++ http://www.netestate.de/
>> ++
>> ++ Sitz: München, HRB Nr.142452 (Handelsregister B München)
>> ++ USt-IdNr. DE221033342
>> ++ Geschäftsführer: Michael Brunnbauer, Franz Brunnbauer
>> ++ Prokurist: Dipl. Kfm. (Univ.) Markus Hendel
>>
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>
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-- (023)
Regards, (024)
Kingsley Idehen
Founder & CEO
OpenLink Software
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