Simon,
Personally, I would demarcate the
real (and its possible worlds) from the fictional worlds (and their links back and forth to the real world), especially since the latter are known to be fictional worlds.
I suggest that we “parenthesize” fictional worlds, even though they have many links back to the real worlds (and the real worlds have many links into those
fictional worlds). Fiction (and similar “parenthesized” worlds) can be often considered object worlds under our real (to them) meta-world.
In fiction, one has an author, a narrator, often multiple narrators, characters in the base story, but also (as you know) meta-narrators and meta-characters.
If modernism and post-modernism has taught us anything, it’s that there are always “levels”. I like John Barth, e.g., because he
pushes the multiple levels into the same narrative level. That’s just me.
Thanks,
Leo
From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Simon Spero
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 1:16 PM
To: [ontolog-forum]
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] NULLs and 3+1 vs. 4D ontologies (was Re: Knowledge graphs by Google and Facebook)
On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 12:19 PM, Matthew West <dr.matthew.west@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Dear Simon,
An good example of this are Fictional people (in worlds in which they are fictional,
not in their fictional worlds). These entities have a temporal extent, but assigning them to a spacial location is problematic.
[...]
MW: I don’t see a problem. There simply is a possible world in which they do exist and
have a location. You can’t place them in the “real” world simply because they do not exist there, and the one they do exist in can be arbitrarily similar to the real world that we are in and they are not.
This was the case I was trying to distinguish:
(1) In our world, at some time prior to 1887, at 1 Bush Villas, Elm Grove, SouthSea, Portsmouth, England, Arthur Conan Doyle conceived of the fictional character "Sherlock Holmes".
(2) Before 1887 the character "Sherlock Holmes" did not exist as something to which the conception of could be attributed.
(3) In our world, the fictional character of Holmes was partially inspired by the actual person Joseph Bell, who was a Doctor.
(4) In our world, the BBC commissioned a number of films featuring modern reinterpretations of the Conan Doyle stories, featuring a Holmes who in the worlds of those movies differed in some respects from the original source. [Written
by Stephen Moffat, who isn't a Doctor, but writes one on TV]
(5) In the fictional world in which our Conan Doyle conceived, Holmes was a detective, who resided at 221B Baker St.
(6) In a possible real world, that Conan Doyle may have conceived of a fictional world in which Holmes was a baker, who lived at 221B Detective St.
(7) In yet another possible world, Bell may have been partially inspired by Conan Doyle to conceive of a Holmes and write fictional stories featuring that character word-for-word identical with the ones in our Conan Doyle wrote.
Is the fictional character in (1) the same fictional character as in (4)?
Is the fictional character in (5) the same fictional character as in (6)?
Is the fictional character in (1) the same fictional character as in (7)?
In our world could two people in the year 1700 discuss the character Sherlock Holmes?
In our world, could two people in 2013 discuss real properties of the character Sherlock Holmes (e.g. the street address where the character was conceived).
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