Hi, my two cents are: (1) that being an individual or a class is a technical
problem of using a logical representation language in the most efficient way
with respect to a given problem. Also any TBox-ABox-like distinction is
essentially technical. Example: Pat is right for most intuitions of number
five, but ZF set theory defines natural numbers as sets! (01)
And (second cent) that the ability of having an intuition of the difference
between individuals and classes (in context) is given by our evolved cognitive
abilities, such as the containment schema, or something comparable. Logic just
takes advantage of that ability, so providing a very useful abstraction in our
culture. (02)
Many discussions are often scholastic querelles, and arguments might be morphed
appropriately according to the position one takes. (03)
Aldo (04)
On Dec 18, 2012, at 11:24:09 PM , Pat Hayes <phayes@xxxxxxx> wrote: (05)
>
> On Dec 18, 2012, at 6:13 AM, David Price wrote:
>
>> On 18 Dec 2012, at 13:28, Alexander Titov wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Matthew,
>>>
>>> I would like to ask a few questions to understand you better:
>>>
>>>> MW: Someone mentioned that an individual is something that does not have
>members (in the sense of a set having members) and that is close to what I
>would mean, but that would make the null set an individual, so it is not quite
>adequate. My definition of individual is something that exists in space and
>time. I am not a set (or class or type or kind or sort etc) nor is my car or
>this email. Nor is Sherlock Holmes to give a more difficult example. All these
>things can be placed in space and time (even if it is imaginary space and
>time) . On the other hand, sets/classes/types are generally considered to
>exist outside space and time.
>>>
>>> I understand that a 'main dichotomy' between an individual and a
>set/class/type is - existence in space and time (rather than having or not
>having members).
>
> That surely will not work. The natural number five is an individual, but does
>not exist in space and time, even imaginary space and time. Does Moby Dick,
>the work, exist in space and time? (Where?) Some people think that sets exist
>in time. There is hardly any position on these debates that has not been held
>and defended by someone.
>
> Pat
>
>
>>
>> This depends on the metaphysics and language you've adopted. As Pat said,
>Individual means 'member of set' in logic and has nothing to do with space and
>time. Matthew's comments are couched in 4-dimensionalism so Individual is
>"Thing that exists in some possible world" and so is entirely about space and
>time. In 4-D, a Class can be a member of a Class, yet Classes are not
>Individuals.
>>
>> So, without couching discussions into the approach/background that is the
>context, even Individual is not a clearly defined term.
>>
>>>
>>>> MW: On the other hand, sets/classes/types are generally considered to
>exist outside space and time.
>>>
>>> Can we consider opposite - sets/classes/types do exist within space and
>time as well? For example, as a collection/set of space and time extensions of
>all their members?
>>>
>>> What will happen if the criteria is joined: 'does not have members' and
>'exists in space and time'? Not sure if it is better... We have now another
>(at least three) cases to think about…
>>
>> As Classes are things of which Individuals are members based on some
>criteria so, by definition, Classes in 4D are not in space time. Classes are
>identified by their extension, but that does not put them into space/time
>either.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> David
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/
>> Config Subscr: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontolog-forum/
>> Unsubscribe: mailto:ontolog-forum-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/
>> Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/
>> To join: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid1J
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> IHMC (850)434 8903 or (650)494 3973
> 40 South Alcaniz St. (850)202 4416 office
> Pensacola (850)202 4440 fax
> FL 32502 (850)291 0667 mobile
> phayesAT-SIGNihmc.us http://www.ihmc.us/users/phayes
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/
> Config Subscr: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontolog-forum/
> Unsubscribe: mailto:ontolog-forum-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/
> Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/
> To join: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid1J
> (06)
_________________________________________________________________
Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/
Config Subscr: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontolog-forum/
Unsubscribe: mailto:ontolog-forum-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/
Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/
To join: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid1J (07)
|