Pat, (01)
Specifying the particular temporal frame of reference used is an example of
what I recommended in the other email I just sent. The important thing is to
be explicit about it, not that we need universal agreement on which frame of
reference to use. We can typically deal with a multiplicity of frames of
reference, even if they usually have differing scope. However, not all
frames of reference have unambiguous/definitive mappings to each other. So
we need to recognize that there may be situations when two or more agents
may not really be able to understand each other, even if the respective
frames of reference are explicitly cited. This is the modern equivalent of
the old map legends that stated something along the lines of "there be
monsters here". :-) (02)
Hans (03)
-----Original Message-----
From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Pat Hayes
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 1:04 PM
To: William Frank
Cc: [ontolog-forum]
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Ontologies vs. Web Ontologies (04)
On Oct 23, 2012, at 5:59 PM, William Frank wrote: (05)
> I seek some enlightenment:
>
> Looking at this hierarchy, while it is questionable in many ways, I find
it troubling that a place is a kind of thing, yet a date/time is a "data
type," and not a kind of thing. (06)
The date/time is information about the thing. The thing, in this case, is a
time or time-interval. Note that the same actual time might have different
date/times in different temporal coordinate systems, eg the Islamic calendar
and the Mecca timezone vs. the Gregorian calendar and the NYC timezone. (07)
Pat (08)
>
> I sort of thought space-time was somehow unified. surely more than a
datatype, such as number, which can be used to identify a location in space
and time, and yet different from "things."
>
> I can only hope there is some practical reason for this I do not
understand, as I can more easily guess for many of the other classifiers and
their otherwise dubious organization.
>
> Wm
>
> On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 5:58 PM, John F Sowa <sowa@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On 10/23/2012 2:27 PM, Deborah MacPherson wrote:
> > Curious where this list of facilities came from and how they came to
> > be organized this way.
>
> I just selected a few random examples from the Schema.org hierarchy to
> illustrate the discussion:
>
> http://www.schema.org/docs/full.html
>
> This hierarchy was defined by the consortium founded by Google,
> Microsoft (Bing), and Yahoo.
>
> R. V. Guha was the person from Google who presented a talk on
> Schema.org in the Ontolog series. Guha had been the associate
> director of Cyc in the early 1990s. He co-authored the book on Cyc with
Doug Lenat (1991).
>
> So Guha was certainly familiar with the methods used in Cyc, and he
> made some major contributions to them. In particular, Guha's PhD
> dissertation (for which John McCarthy was the thesis adviser and Ed
> Feigenbaum was on the committee) was about reorganizing the Cyc
> ontology in microtheories.
>
> Guha later went to Apple and then to Netscape, where he worked with
> Tim Bray to develop RDF. He also worked with Pat Hayes to define the
> logic base (LBase) for RDF. He worked at IBM research for a while in
> the early 2000s, and he is now at Google, where he is working on
> Schema.org.
>
> So I would assume that the current Schema.org hierarchy was at least
> influenced by Guha. I don't know all the reasons why he would have
> designed it that way, but I do know that one reason why Guha designed
> RDF is that he believed that Cyc was too complex. He didn't want to
> reject logic, but he wanted to find a simpler foundation that could
> grow into a richer system.
>
> And by the way, Guha said that he would have preferred LISP notation
> for representing triples instead of XML notation. That may be one
> reason why Google is emphasizing JSON for Schema.org -- JSON is
> basically LISP with square brackets and curly braces.
>
> John
>
> PS: If I were forced to bet on a W3C design vs a Google design as the
> likely direction for the future, I'd lean toward Google.
> But Google has quite a few abandoned designs on their garbage heap,
> and so does the W3C.
>
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