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Re: [ontolog-forum] Ontologies vs. Web Ontologies

To: William Frank <williamf.frank@xxxxxxxxx>
Cc: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: Pat Hayes <phayes@xxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 12:03:51 -0500
Message-id: <D1786943-B49D-46B8-85AD-D247A96FF8BA@xxxxxxx>

On Oct 23, 2012, at 5:59 PM, William Frank wrote:    (01)

> I seek some enlightenment: 
> 
> Looking at this hierarchy, while it is questionable in many ways, I find it 
>troubling that a place is a kind of thing, yet a date/time is a "data type," 
>and not a kind of thing.     (02)

The date/time is information about the thing. The thing, in this case, is a 
time or time-interval. Note that the same actual time might have different 
date/times in different temporal coordinate systems, eg the Islamic calendar 
and the Mecca timezone vs. the Gregorian calendar and the NYC timezone.     (03)

Pat    (04)

> 
> I sort of thought space-time was somehow unified. surely more than a 
>datatype, such as number, which can be used to identify a location in space 
>and time, and yet different from "things." 
> 
> I can only hope there is some practical reason for this I do not understand, 
>as I can more easily guess for many of the other classifiers and their 
>otherwise dubious organization. 
> 
> Wm
> 
> On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 5:58 PM, John F Sowa <sowa@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On 10/23/2012 2:27 PM, Deborah MacPherson wrote:
> > Curious where this list of facilities came from and
> > how they came to be organized this way.
> 
> I just selected a few random examples from the Schema.org hierarchy
> to illustrate the discussion:
> 
>     http://www.schema.org/docs/full.html
> 
> This hierarchy was defined by the consortium founded by Google,
> Microsoft (Bing), and Yahoo.
> 
> R. V. Guha was the person from Google who presented a talk on Schema.org
> in the Ontolog series.  Guha had been the associate director of Cyc in
> the early 1990s.  He co-authored the book on Cyc with Doug Lenat (1991).
> 
> So Guha was certainly familiar with the methods used in Cyc, and he
> made some major contributions to them.  In particular, Guha's PhD
> dissertation (for which John McCarthy was the thesis adviser and
> Ed Feigenbaum was on the committee) was about reorganizing the Cyc
> ontology in microtheories.
> 
> Guha later went to Apple and then to Netscape, where he worked
> with Tim Bray to develop RDF.  He also worked with Pat Hayes
> to define the logic base (LBase) for RDF.  He worked at IBM
> research for a while in the early 2000s, and he is now at Google,
> where he is working on Schema.org.
> 
> So I would assume that the current Schema.org hierarchy was at least
> influenced by Guha.  I don't know all the reasons why he would have
> designed it that way, but I do know that one reason why Guha designed
> RDF is that he believed that Cyc was too complex.  He didn't want to
> reject logic, but he wanted to find a simpler foundation that could
> grow into a richer system.
> 
> And by the way, Guha said that he would have preferred LISP notation
> for representing triples instead of XML notation.  That may be one
> reason why Google is emphasizing JSON for Schema.org -- JSON is
> basically LISP with square brackets and curly braces.
> 
> John
> 
> PS:  If I were forced to bet on a W3C design vs a Google design
> as the likely direction for the future, I'd lean toward Google.
> But Google has quite a few abandoned designs on their garbage
> heap, and so does the W3C.
> 
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