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Re: [ontolog-forum] [SMW-devel] [News] Google, Microsoft, Facebook And O

To: ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: John F Sowa <sowa@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 16:53:37 -0400
Message-id: <507731D1.2020801@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Kingsley and Michael,    (01)

JFS
>> People understand AND, OR, NOT, and EXISTS -- and their combinations.
>> They can be evaluated in polynomial time in all SQL implementations.
>> But nobody, not even the SPARQL developers, understand FILTER, OPT,
>> and UNION.    (02)

KI
> As per my comments above, we do, and we always opt to demonstrate
> our understanding via live instances of Virtuoso.    (03)

Yes.  If they are specified precisely, they can be implemented.
But note Michael's comments:    (04)

MB
> It is my impression from working with SPARQL and SQL that constructing
> and optimizing SPARQL queries is more difficult than SQL.    (05)

There are two kinds of translations required:    (06)

  1. For constructing queries, it's necessary to translate questions
     from humans (typically NLs or something easily mapped from NLs)
     to the query notation.    (07)

  2. For high-speed processing, the logical form derived from point #1
     has to be reorganized to reduce the number of accesses to external
     devices (disks or hardware).    (08)

Since nearly all NLs support AND, OR, NOT, and EXISTS, point #1 can be
supported fairly well by a language that uses those operators.  And
SQL implementers have 40 years of experience in optimizing point #2.    (09)

But FILTER, OPT, and UNION and their combinations don't have a simple
mapping to or from any NL.  And there are publications that say that
many combinations of those three operators can be NP complete.    (010)

MB
> We all know that nary relations can be modeled with binary relations
> so what reasons could there be for nary relations ?    (011)

There are two separate issues here:    (012)

  1. Teaching people how to state their problems (assertions, queries,
     programs) clearly and precisely.    (013)

  2. Teaching them to formulate their statements in a way that a computer
     can process them efficiently.    (014)

Point #1 itself is hard, but it's possible.  But if we have to teach
them how to state their problems precisely (#1) *and* optimize them
for the computer to process efficiently (#2), that makes a difficult
problem nearly impossible.    (015)

MB
> I see those potential reasons:
>
> 1) Simplicity of notation
> 2) Efficiency of computation (lookup, store)
> 3) Efficiency of reasoning
> ...
> But how important is reason 1 ?    (016)

If you can't keep it simple, nobody will use your system.    (017)

John    (018)

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