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Re: [ontolog-forum] Person, Organization, and Citizens United vs. The Fe

To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: Gian Piero Zarri <gian_piero.zarri@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: Gian Piero Zarri <zarri@xxxxxxx>
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2012 00:23:58 +0200
Message-id: <5070AF7E.9030706@xxxxxxx>
Dear William,

 
"John"must be modelled a priori making use of a SPECIFIC AND UNIQUE instance of a concept like, e.g., "individual_person".
 
"Student" and "customer"
are generic properties, totally independent in principle from John and
from any other possible character. They must, of course, be ASSOCIATED
with John within a specific, transient spatio-temporal environment but,
being properties, cannot be INSTANTIATED

Does this mean that "John" CAN be instantiated?  I agree, but only by his mother and father and a little help from mother nature.    In my opinion, 'instantiation' is one of the three weird mental whirlpools that class-oriented programming has foisted on us.   Should we not be modelling the world, not how some software works?  Instatiation, in mathematical logic, means something else, and something good.


GPZ: I cannot suppose you are serious. According to the common AI (and computer science) practice, to derive an instance (a specific individual) like "John" from a general concept like "individual_person" means simply actualising the properties (name, age, sex etc.) generically defined for "individual_person" with the specific data proper to John. Quite simple, I don't see in this context any need for neither whirlpools, maelstroms, nor jacuzzis. You could be right in saying that this is a trivialisation of universal instantiation and existential instantiation inferences in mathematical logics, but this is certainly not the unique example of change of meaning when passing to a discipline to another. See, to mention the probably most well-known example in this domain, the change of sense of "case grammars", originally used to represent the surface relationships of natural language expressions, and rerouted by the AI scholar in order to represent the conceptual relationships, independent from any surface realisation, of the entities included in a (deep level) symbolic structure.

 
 
>
> MW: I disagree that there is a proliferation of records, for accidental
> properties you have to  have some record that represents the period of time
> the object has the accidental property. The rest is just about what you want
> to call it.

GPZ: I agree but, at least for clarity's sake, I prefer to keep the
"record" used to represent a transient property of John conceptually
distinct from the record used to represent the properties of John as a
standard individual.

I think it would be hard to find someone to disagree with that.


GPZ: Thank you William for you warm support.


What I would choose to call this is, there is a relationship called marriage.  The marriage of john and cecialiia is and instance of that relationship. In that relationship, John plays the role of husband.  So, The role instance of husband in a marriage relationship is  linked to john.  It is the marriage  that has the dates, places of occurence, etc., as attributes. John as husband has a few too, but they are fully dependent on John as john and the marriage instance.  No marriage, no john as husband. No john, no john as husband.
 

 

Best regards,


G.P. Zarri




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