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Re: [ontolog-forum] Accommodating legacy software

To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "doug foxvog" <doug@xxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 00:07:55 -0400
Message-id: <154d249ec3af89c0a3df3aaf2ef5f87c.squirrel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On Tue, September 4, 2012 17:02, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
> On 9/4/12 3:41 PM, doug foxvog wrote:
>> On Tue, September 4, 2012 12:34, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
>>> On 9/4/12 11:55 AM, doug foxvog wrote:
>>>> On Sun, September 2, 2012 10:43, Kingsley Idehen wrote:    (01)

>>> On 9/4/12 11:55 AM, doug foxvog wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>> I would suggest that a "fundamental data model" should model the
>>>> following
>>>> types of data:
>>>> * (terms for) types/classes of things
>>>>     + specification of subtype/subclass to another type/class
>>>>     + specification of disjointness with another type/class
>>>> * (terms for) instances of such types/classes
>>>> * (terms for) relations among represented things
>>>>     + specification of arity of relations
>>>>       - single arity (can be binary)
>>>>       - variable arity
>>>>     + restriction on argument fillers of relation
>>>>       - to being an instance of given type(s)/class(es)
>>>>       - to being a subclass of given type(s)/class(es)
>>>>       - restrictions based on the type/superclass of another argument
>>>> filler
>>>>     + specification of properties of relations
>>>>       - transitive       - symmetric     - reflexive    - functional
>>>> in
>>>> arg N
>>>>       - antitransitive  - asymmetric   - irreflexive  - ...
>>>>     + specification of relations among relations
>>>>       - subrelation  - inverse subrelation - transitive closure - ...
>>>> * (terms for) functions of represented things
>>>>     + specification of arity of function
>>>>     + restriction on argument fillers of function
>>>>     + specification of type/class of result of function applied to
>>>> arguments
>>>>       - to being an instance of given type(s)/class(es)
>>>>       - to being a subclass of given type(s)/class(es)
>>>>       - to being a instance/subclass of one of its arguments
>>>>       - restriction based on the type/superclass of an argument filler
>>>> * provenance of data
>>>> * contexts for data
>>>>     + define contexts
>>>>     + specify semantics of a context using statements based on
>>>> relations
>>>> * context of data
>>>>     + specification of the context in which data is valid
>>>> Such a data model would not require a fixed syntax.    (02)

>>>  ...
>>> I am not seeing what isn't expressible
>>> in triples from what you outline above.
>>> At best, I see stuff that could be awkward to express in triples    (03)

>> E.g., the variable arity relations.  The accessibility of triples
>> without their context or provenance.    (04)

>> But why add a restriction (to triples) that complicates encoding and
>> makes things hard to express?    (05)

>> I admit that anything can be expressed in triples.  ...    (06)

>>> or be awkward to grok at first blush etc..
>>>>    Under the covers
>>>> (i.e., at what is now the XML level), messaging syntaxes should allow
>>>> variable arity relations (as XML currently does).  If someone wants to
>>>> code a messaging syntax that requires triples
>>>> for higher arity relations (and takes 20 times as much bandwidth),
>>>> such a syntax should not be banned.    (07)

...
>>  A common format is what gave us the WWW.    (08)

> No, TimBL bootstrapped the WWW by deftly getting folks to coalesce
> around HTML. That doesn't mean the WWW is all about HTML,
> its just how it was bootstrapped.    (09)

Sure.  Other formats are now in use.  One specifies in the URL what
format one is using (http/ftp/...).  But defining one format that still
is the most commonly used is the bootstrap that gave us the WWW.    (010)

>> Sure, we could have multiple formats, but transmitted semantic data not
>> in a defined format could not be successfully received.    (011)

> I beg to differ.    (012)

Sure the file could be received.  But the semantics?  If the format were
reverse Polish notation or value-attribute-entity or the first separator
were a comma and the second a tab, could your system receive the
content (as opposed to merely the characters) if you had no document
specifying what the format was?    (013)

-- doug foxvog
...    (014)

> Kingsley
>>
>> -- doug foxvog
>>
>>> Kingsley
>>>> -- doug
>>>>
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>> John
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Kingsley Idehen
>>>>> Founder & CEO
>>>>> OpenLink Software
>>>>> Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
>>>>> Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
>>>>> Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
>>>>> Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
>>>>> LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
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>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Kingsley Idehen
>>> Founder & CEO
>>> OpenLink Software
>>> Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
>>> Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
>>> Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
>>> Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
>>> LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
>>>
>>>
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>
>
> --
>
> Regards,
>
> Kingsley Idehen
> Founder & CEO
> OpenLink Software
> Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
> Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
> Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
> Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
> LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
>
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