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Re: [ontolog-forum] Self Interest Ontology

To: <rwheeler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "'[ontolog-forum] '" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "Rich Cooper" <rich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 10:26:23 -0700
Message-id: <81F0FF0CD3CB4B219BFB2CF59E8556A9@Gateway>

Ron Wheeler wrote:

 

On 30/05/2012 10:10 AM, Rich Cooper wrote:

If we limit the Self Interest Ontology to just the players Chomsky mentions (directly or indirectly), the set of agents could be organized thusly:

 

-government

            -legislators

            -judiciary

            -cabinet level executives

            -employees

regulators?

            Aren’t regulators cabinet level executives, perhaps assisted in developing regulations by employees of the government and lobbyists representing corporate interests or else NGO employees? 

            Please feel free to add those kinds of thoughts. 


public services?

            Public services wouldn’t be agents, though that might fit into the Activity subtree.  Some public services (police, paramedics, …) might be represented there, but there are so MANY instances of public service types that I’m not sure what representation would be most effective.  I’ll think about it for a while, but if you have some good ideas about it, that would be appreciated. 


DHS, military?
            Good idea; wouldn’t DHS be cabinet level?  Wouldn’t military break into the various forces Army, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard, TSA, Marines, etcetera?  All DHS subtypes should have something to do with applying force.  So would federal police (FBI) local and state police, CDC (contagious disease quarantine) and US Marshalls (judiciary force).  How should these be organized, and how would they likely be referenced by phrases in Chomsky’s writings or in news stories? 

 

 

-NGOs

-corporate

            -stockholders

            -directors

            -executive management

            -lobbyists

            -employees

customers?

marketing partners (reps, distributors, franchisees)?
            I considered customers, suppliers, and service providers but I’m not sure how to organize those kinds of subclasses into the individuals class.  Suggestions appreciated.  Also, would these classes by mentioned in Chomsky articles or news articles?  That could get to be a complex mapping if not carefully treated. 


financial institutions (banks, bondholders, other credit institutions)?

            Yes, good choice, though I’m not sure how to handle them just yet.  I would prefer to delay discussion groups (e.g. banks, institutions) until after we get a good rendering of individual agents and activities.  Groups might be best represented by a collage of logic, since groups don’t actually perform activities; the executives and employees (etc) do that.  Yet groups are mentioned in source materials (short for Chomsky and news articles) and have to be handled somehow before the ontology has been completed. 


financial analysts, stockbrokers, rating firms?
media?

 

Again, those terms could describe groups or they could describe individuals in those groups, so its not clear to me yet how to best render them. 




-individuals

            -taxpayers

                        -adults

                        -minors

dependants might be a better classification than minors?

            Yes, that might be preferable since a dependant can be either an adult or a minor or an incarcerated individual, or a disabled individual. 



            -beneficiaries

                        -adults

                        -minors

 

This gives one view for the Ontology which identifies the agents that participate in the Chomskyesque materials.  Does anyone want to suggest additions, deletions, or changes to the list above?

 

Activities of the Self Interest Ontology might include:

 

shouldn't these all be actions rather than results or things (monopolies, capital)?

 

I was thinking in IDEF0 terms so that an activity is a class while actions are instances of the activity class, perhaps also activity classes or perhaps singular actions.  Keeping the distinction between activity and action seems useful to me for mapping textual source materials into the representation. 

 

Similarly, the objects ( inputs, outputs, controls, mechanisms ) can be represented as derivative types of ICOMAs.  That leaves a consistent interface for defining activities and related ICOMAs. 

 

-Great suggestions!  Thanks,

-Rich

 

Sincerely,

Rich Cooper

EnglishLogicKernel.com

Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com

9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1 2

 

 

 

 

 



-government

            -taxation

            -regulation

            -legislation

            -enforcement

            -judgments

-corporate

            -markets

            -monopolies

            -competitors

            -persuasion

            -operations

            -finance

                        -capital

                        -revenues

                        -costs

            -lobbying

            -employment

            -taxation          

-Individuals

 

One way to develop materials for filling in the lower levels of the ontology might be to process NLP from Chomsky’s books and articles, and news stories, including daily news articles from individual reporters, articles from corporate news sources (e.g., WSJ, NYT, LA Times, etc).  By identifying the named entities that correspond to the agent classes above, it should be possible to organize news stories to deepen the Self Interest Ontology to include lower level subclasses.  This is a very limited first step in identifying the actors and activities that play identifiable roles a la Chomsky’s viewpoint.  It should also identify the news sources which are biased in each direction for each class of agents. 

 

Has anything serious been left out of the top level for the Self Interest Ontology?  Again, suggestions are appreciated,

 

-Rich

 

Sincerely,

Rich Cooper

EnglishLogicKernel.com

Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com

9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1 2


From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rich Cooper
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 6:46 AM
To: '[ontolog-forum] '
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Self Interest Ontology

 

Chomsky’s theories of the corporate-state partnership, and how it concentrates power in the hands of large corporations, are well known, especially:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TieGj2Yi5r8

 

But neither Rand nor Hayek subscribed to corporate-state partnership.  In both cases, they value the individual, not the corporation and not the state and certainly not the combination of the two.  So I don’t think that is the reason why he is unhappy with both Rand and Hayek. 

 

From the above video “elections are always bought”, “President Obama’s election was funded by corporate interests”, and numerous other examples indicate his deep displeasure with the state-corporate binding. 

 

I would like to see quotes from Chomsky that specifically describe his displeasure with both Rand and Hayek rather than trying to predict his rationale.  Chomsky is always very deep in his rationale, so I don’t think that we can simply say the corporate-state binding is why he is against either Rand or Hayek. 

 

Mike Pool quoted this short paragraph from the article, which is somewhat enlightening:

 

"Hayek was the kind of 'libertarian' who was quite tolerant of such free societies as Pinochet's Chile, one of the most grotesque of the National Security States instituted with US backing or direct initiative during the hideous plague of terror and violence that spread over the hemisphere from the 60s through the 80s. He even sank to the level of arranging a meeting of his Mont Pelerin society there during the most vicious days of the dictatorship. "

 

But that critique is not directed at Hayek’s ideas about economics in general, only about his interpretation of Hayek’s poor showing in the political area, specifically in supporting Pinochet and the US methods of supporting property owners at the expense of the average citizen. 

 

His description of how democratic groups in Haiti were overturned by the US government and a dictator was reinstalled under US actions, is typical Chomsky, and very clearly in line with his past work.  But in broad brush strokes in the article, he paints both Rand and Hayek (neither of whom are known for their political wisdom) as evil without considering the kudos they gave to the individuals. 

 

-Rich

 

Sincerely,

Rich Cooper

EnglishLogicKernel.com

Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com

9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1 2


From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Chris Menzel
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2012 5:30 AM
To: [ontolog-forum]
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Self Interest Ontology

 

On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 2:09 PM, Rich Cooper <rich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Thanks – a very interesting article.  I’m surprised at how vehemently Chomsky shrugs her off as evil.  He doesn’t give any explanation in the article; do you have any information about WHY he thinks Rand is evil? 

 

It's obvious if you read Chomsky's (vast) work on political theory and American social and political history, especially his writings on social security, taxation, corporate welfare, the massive redistribution of wealth from the middle class to the top income brackets engineered by conservative tax policy over the last dozen years, etc, all of which are in vehement opposition to the social darwinism that lies at the heart of Randian economic theories (and current GOP economic politicies).

 




 
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Ron Wheeler President Artifact Software Inc email: rwheeler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx skype: ronaldmwheeler phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102


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