Hello Chris, (01)
On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 11:20:21AM +0200, Chris Menzel wrote:
> Sure, sure, but all that follows is that a realist stance can be
> problematic in contexts where relativistic or quantum effects are relevant
> ??? i.e., contexts involving involving things that are very small (like
> subatomic small), very large (like cosmic scale large), or very fast (like
> approaching light speed fast). In most contexts where ontologies are
> usefully employed, relativistic and quantum effects are irrelevant and a
> realistic stance ??? i.e., the assumption that the portion of reality we are
> interested in exists determinately and independently of any perceivers ??? is
> entirely unproblematic. (02)
Yes - but there are traps. If a macroscopic system is dependent on quantum
effects - like in the thought experiment of Schrödinger - making statements
about the state of affairs *before* the measurement is problematic. You can
open the box, find a dead cat and by examination conclude that it must have
been dead for an hour. The statement that the cat was dead 30 minutes before
you opened the box is problematic. The same maybe also holds for more common
situations like a stroke or heart attack where the exact timing could depend
on quantum effects. (03)
If have talked with someone that has a bit more background on this and he
said that in fact *most* physicists would agree that the fact of life or
death of the cat in Schrödingers experiment is established by opening the box.
That the cat can itself be regarded as observer or replaced with a human shows
that you cannot get the subjectivity easily out of the theory. (04)
Correct me if I am wrong - im am not deep into those things. (05)
Regards, (06)
Michael Brunnbauer (07)
--
++ Michael Brunnbauer
++ netEstate GmbH
++ Geisenhausener Straße 11a
++ 81379 München
++ Tel +49 89 32 19 77 80
++ Fax +49 89 32 19 77 89
++ E-Mail brunni@xxxxxxxxxxxx
++ http://www.netestate.de/
++
++ Sitz: München, HRB Nr.142452 (Handelsregister B München)
++ USt-IdNr. DE221033342
++ Geschäftsführer: Michael Brunnbauer, Franz Brunnbauer
++ Prokurist: Dipl. Kfm. (Univ.) Markus Hendel (08)
_________________________________________________________________
Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/
Config Subscr: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontolog-forum/
Unsubscribe: mailto:ontolog-forum-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/
Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/
To join: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid1J (09)
|