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Re: [ontolog-forum] [ontology-summit] Estimating number of all known fac

To: ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: John Bottoms <john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 20:32:44 -0400
Message-id: <4FBC302C.7070306@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
I'm in the Brodmann camp myself. Note: this information is not about "facts", but is about "concepts".

Along the surface of the cortex the neurons are vertical like telephone poles. Axons stretch to the next 2 or 3 neurons like long distance telephone lines. Dotted across this landscape of vertical poles are clusters of 100 or so neurons, each called a micro-column. In addition you will also find clusters of multiple micro-columns called macro-columns consisting of 100's of micro-columns. It is "generally accepted" in the brain community that these are the concentration points for information, likely to be "concepts" (re: private conversation with John Nolte, "The Human Brain" [the definitive atlas of the features of the brain]).

If, and that's a good-sized "if", this is true, then there is a finite number of columns along the cortex.
I believe that number is on the order of 50,000, but I haven't had anyone check my numbers. Here are the brain numbers:
·         Brain Surface Area: 1.5 meters²
 ·         Length of neuron: .1 mm to 1 meter
 ·         Cortical thickness: 2mm
 ·         Number of neurons in 1 mm² (average): 148,000
 ·         Number of neurons in Brain: 100 billion
 ·         Number of neurons in mini-column: ~100
 ·         Number of mini-columns in a macro-column: ~100
 ·         Number of neurons in macro-column: 10,000
 ·         Size of mini-column: .03 mm
 ·         Size of macro-column: 1.0 mm
 ·         Neuron skip distance (average): .5 mm
(these numbers are valid approximations)

We could also speculate on how these clusters are used by the brain. God only knows what the malloc() function looks like. Mappings in the brain tend to remain fixed, and are not modified unless there is severe trauma to the tissue. I don't think the functions of these clusters are dynamically modified to alternate functions. However, the data processed by the cluster is certainly modified as inputs to the brain are changed.

(As a curious aside: the neuron that is 1 meter long runs from the head to below the trunk. Glucose is sent via "walkers" (vesicles) down a micro-tubule of the neuron to feed the neurons at the far end. [Neurons and micro-tubules are 1-way streets and there are coupled pair-clusters that are assigned together for communication or transport.] It takes 2 or 3 days for a walker to get to the far end of the neuron. The corresponding neurons in the Blue Whale are 6 meters long and it takes 20 to 25 days for the same trip to be made to deliver glucose.

When the walker has delivered its load of glucose, it returns empty (dead-head) to the neuron cell body along the surface of a micro-tubule in the return direction. The vesicle machine is too valuable to recycle and lose from service.

Neurons are assigned in pair clusters to facilitate "reciprocal firings" that validate signals. The patterns of the cluster impressed on the cortex represent a specific pattern agreed upon during a training sequence.)

-John Bottoms
 FirstStar Systems
 Concord, MA (not far from Walden Pond)

On 5/22/2012 7:52 PM, Simon Spero wrote:
I'm not sure that there is any simple relationship between the total amount of data that is stored on disk and the number of known facts; I'm not even sure that there's there's a simple relation between the amount of data and the amount of information (especially where DNA and RNA sequence data; there's a lot of similarity between Lampreys).  

I'm also not sure that there are any useful answers without further qualification to question of  the number of known facts in the universe that do not require accepting the KK-thesis (that knowing something means that you know that you know it).  One could (de)generatively argue that the number is  some uncountable infinity (e.g. it is a fact that: {1.0} is a member of the power set of real numbers, and that fact is known in the universe). 

Simon


On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 6:28 PM, Obrst, Leo J. <lobrst@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I think if you consider the basic fact as either a mono or binary predicate, and then everything else is derived from those, you can gauge.

 

The total sum of stored data has been estimated (not quite the same notion): http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12419672, http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/11/02/12/1934244/the-sum-total-of-the-worlds-knowledge-250-exabytes. But apparently that was as of 2007 and just published in Science Express in February, 2011.

 

See http://www.sciencemag.org/content/332/6025/60.abstract for the original story, once you peel back the blogger crap.

 

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

 

Thanks,

Leo

 

From: ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of matthew lange
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 6:06 PM
To: lavern@xxxxxxxxxxxx; [ontolog-forum]; [ontolog-summit]
Subject: Re: [ontology-summit] Estimating number of all known facts

 

Billions is several orders of magnitude too small, to be sure--but then again you were talking about beholders, not the facts themselves...wiuch leads me to think that we perhaps could estimate a ballpark average number of facts that a beholder needs to know for various levels of sophistication in particular knowledge domains--including "common sense".
In addition to ability--Malcolm Gladwell's, 10,000 hours must be roughly translatable in terms of "knowable entities".
Just looking for ballpark here...surely someone has investigated this in terms of knowledge engineering...

On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 2:28 PM, LaVern Pritchard <lavern@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

The number of known facts is unknowable because a fact is in the eye of the beholder or a label, there are billions of beholders and labelers, no way to know what they individually know or how they label or to eliminate duplicates.

There are estimates I've seen from time to time about the amount of "stuff" in electronically stored form. But facts are slippery things.

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On 5/21/2012 2:59 PM, matthew lange wrote:

Hi everyone,
I am trying locate published works related to estimates on how quickly
our web of knowledge is expanding: that is, estimations on the number of
known facts in the universe, how quickly this is growing, knowledge
domains with particular growth rates, etc. I would be delighted if
someone could point me in the right direction, especially toward peer
reviewed resources.
Also, my apologies for cross-posting, I do practice good netiquette, but
I didn't know which list was more appropriate--happy to receive guidance
here as well.
Best,
~mc


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