ontolog-forum
[Top] [All Lists]

Re: [ontolog-forum] HOL decidability [Was: using SKOSforcontrolledvalues

To: "'[ontolog-forum] '" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "Rich Cooper" <rich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 11:30:40 -0700
Message-id: <20101015183044.EAAFC138D07@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Yes John Bottoms, I agree with your position.

 

Ron Wheeler, for entirely practical considerations, I require an iterator that has a fixed number of storage locations, and which performs its function in a fixed amount of time, regardless of the value being iterated.  Also for practical purposes, I consider addition to be processed in one machine cycle, regardless of whether it’s a small amount longer for asynchronous designs.  One add, with this caveat, consumes as much as another. 

 

You are certainly welcome to look inside the word and postulate a long (N bit) asynchronous word being incremented from 2^N-1 to overflow, but I wouldn't choose that representation.  I stand by my requirement that the function should use a (nearly) constant amount of time and space, the same time and space consumed for each iteration regardless of the type being iterated.  If you want short and long carries to be considered different consumption of time, that is your right, but I don't subscribe to that representation.  No insight is gained by delving that deeply inside the ALU.  

 

For practical considerations again, there is no point in being concerned with algorithms that delve into the carry level of timing.  An "iterator" in my terms has a role to play which requires it to be approximately constant in time and space.  

 

Clearly, every person on this list could postulate yet another kind of consideration for iterators, but I have stated mine.  

 

HTH,

-Rich

 

Sincerely,

Rich Cooper

EnglishLogicKernel.com

Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com

9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1 2

 

-----Original Message-----
From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John Bottoms
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 9:06 AM
To: [ontolog-forum]
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] HOL decidability [Was: using SKOSforcontrolledvalues for controlledvocabulary]

 

Ontology?

 

An ontology is a storage area. It should be able to store anything.

 

If the discussion of iterators are about accessing entities within the

ontology, then the selection of the iterator should be up to the

designer of the system. Is there truly a need to specify the details of

an iterator for a "universal" ontology?

 

-John Bottoms

  FirstStar

 

On 10/15/2010 10:27 AM, Rich Cooper wrote:

> Yes, and that is the kind of "iterator" I want to not include.  My iterators

> use a constant amount of space and time, and visit all the elements of the

> collection.

> 

> -Rich

> 

> Sincerely,

> Rich Cooper

> EnglishLogicKernel.com

> Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com

> 9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1 2

> 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

> [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of doug foxvog

> Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 7:10 AM

> To: [ontolog-forum]

> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] HOL decidability [Was: using

> SKOSforcontrolledvalues for controlledvocabulary]

> 

> The carries from bit to bit take additional time, but a standard computer

> waits until a master clock tick to complete an operation, so the iterations

> within an instruction do not affect the timing.

> 

> Since the calculation of the next prime can not be guaranteed within a

> fixed amount of time, such iteration masking is not possible in the

> case of iterating through primes while generating them.  One can iterate

> through millions of primes in a table, but you will eventually reach no

> a point where the next prime has not yet been determined.  The next step

> of the iteration would take an inordinate amount of time (else that

> prime would have already been calculated).

> 

> -- doug

> 

> 

> On Fri, October 15, 2010 9:43, Randall R Schulz said:

>> On Friday October 15 2010, Rich Cooper wrote:

>>> Infinite precision arithmetic repeatedly adds another computer word

>>> to represent numbers that overflow with the current number of words.

>>> You were talking about carries propagating across a word, remember?

>> 

>> No, I'm talking about carries from bit to bit.

>> 

>> You can't do anything, iterative or not, in arithmetic without relying

>> on underlying interations. Period.

>> 

>> 

>> Randall Schulz

>> 

>> _________________________________________________________________

>> Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/

>> Config Subscr: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontolog-forum/

>> Unsubscribe: mailto:ontolog-forum-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

>> Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/

>> Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/

>> To join: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid1J

>> To Post: mailto:ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

>> 

>> 

> 

> 

> =============================================================

> doug foxvog    doug@xxxxxxxxxx   http://ProgressiveAustin.org

> 

> "I speak as an American to the leaders of my own nation. The great

> initiative in this war is ours. The initiative to stop it must be ours."

>      - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

> =============================================================

> 

> 

> _________________________________________________________________

> Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/

> Config Subscr: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontolog-forum/

> Unsubscribe: mailto:ontolog-forum-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

> Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/

> Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/

> To join: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid1J

> To Post: mailto:ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

> 

> 

> 

> _________________________________________________________________

> Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/

> Config Subscr: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontolog-forum/

> Unsubscribe: mailto:ontolog-forum-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

> Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/

> Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/

> To join: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid1J

> To Post: mailto:ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

> 

> 

 

_________________________________________________________________

Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/ 

Config Subscr: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontolog-forum/ 

Unsubscribe: mailto:ontolog-forum-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/

Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/

To join: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid1J

To Post: mailto:ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 


_________________________________________________________________
Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/  
Config Subscr: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontolog-forum/  
Unsubscribe: mailto:ontolog-forum-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/
Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/ 
To join: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid1J
To Post: mailto:ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    (01)

<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>