I'm include to agree with John Bottoms that "It appears you [Doug] are
using a classic, but common, definition of grammar." But I won't argue
with Doug on the strict definitions he uses. I'm all for precision and
consistency. (Would "syntax" be a more acceptable term than "grammar"?)
However I do lament the rare appearance discussions of grammar-like
rules in a forum devoted to knowledge representation. (I may be in the
wrong forum if I want that.) (01)
The discussion between Gian Piero Zarri and Pat Hayes this past December
-- framed primarily as a distinction between binary representations and
n-ary representations -- was an interesting exception. Past discussions
of controlled natural languages almost get there, but I am uncomfortable
with English-based controlled natural languages in particular. (02)
My impression is that the excellent work in KR done by people in this
forum (and by the people whose work they cite) is not sufficiently
leveraged in practical applications for capturing and leveraging
meaning. Software applications often explicitly identify Agents,
Actions, Inputs, Outputs -- combining concepts in [multiple variations
of] an "unnatural" syntax. That's only the beginning of many
possibilities for representing and leveraging valuable knowledge ...
unless you insist upon complete true/false decidability of complex
assertions about reality and the relationships among them. (03)
Phil Murray (04)
--------------------- (05)
The Semantic Advantage
Turning Information into Assets
phil.murray@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
401-247-7899 (06)
Blog: http://semanticadvantage.wordpress.com
Web site: http://www.semanticadvantage.com (07)
Pavithra wrote:
> Doug
>
> Here is a simplistic explanation .. ( my two sense..)
>
> By 'logic' Wittgenstein meant "the study of everything subject to rules"
> (/TLP/ 6.3 <http://www.roangelo.net/logwitt/logwit11.html>). And the
> rules for using our language -- including the rules of sense and
> nonsense -- he called 'grammar'.
>
>
> Well.. I agree with the above statement.. I think all the subjects have
> formal rules and logic is a way of expressing them using formal
> mathematical model.. ( which uses terms of a particular language).
>
> Arithmetic or algebra are not languages. It is Mathematics ( like other
> subjects). I have a problem with people referring to them as languages.
> A Language is a basic medium of expression ( a tool) like English,
> French, Arabic, Chinese, or Hindi etc. Mathematics can be expressed in
> different languages.. So are the other subjects.
>
> The human society has built layers of tools like languages and subjects
> to express the complexities of the universe.. but they are layers ( or
> building blocks). Each one is not the same as the other. They have
> different purpose and rules. Some may be overlapping, some may sound
> similar, but they are not one and the same.. Books and computers are
> additional layer of tools to store, and manipulate those layers of
> information ( medium of storage and manipulation of information). But
> they are additional different layers. ( Books are books, and Computers
> use digital formats ).
>
> I know people barrow terminology from all disciples and layers and use
> it in a fashionable way with multiple meanings. But that creates all the
> jargon and the haze! What does natural language mean? Is it English or
> Computer Science NL?
>
> One can treat the whole universe as an entity and everything else as
> subsets and generalize the whole thing. But that only causes illusion..
> with no clear understanding of anything ( not manageable in a clear
> concise way). Does not serve any purpose, if there is one. I think
> people should treat different things, as different and separate issues.
>
> Regards,
> Pavithra
>
> --- On *Wed, 10/13/10, doug foxvog /<doug@xxxxxxxxxx>/* wrote:
>
>
> From: doug foxvog <doug@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [ontolog-forum] [Fwd: Re: using SKOS for controlled values
> for controlled vocabulary]
> To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Wednesday, October 13, 2010, 10:24 AM
>
> Pavithra wrote:
>
> > Isn't grammar the logic of the language? The verbs and the nouns and
> > what should follow what?? )
>
> Grammar in a natural language is a description of how that language is
> normally used. If an accepted grammar is not followed that means either
> that the usage is somehow "improper", or that the grammar inadequately
> describes the normal usage of the language.
>
> Grammatical rules can be expressed using a logical formalism, but
> that does not mean that the grammar itself is a logic.
>
> -- doug
>
> =============================================================
> doug foxvog doug@xxxxxxxxxx </mc/compose?to=doug@xxxxxxxxxx>
> http://ProgressiveAustin.org
>
> "I speak as an American to the leaders of my own nation. The great
> initiative in this war is ours. The initiative to stop it must be ours."
> - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
> =============================================================
>
>
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