RC wrote: "So a
familiar sign S represents another sign S2 in one agent?s mind, yet can
represent only S itself in another agent?s mind, while simultaneously
representing S3 (money, a document ?) to still another agent?"
ASHA: A sign
points out to something else, while a symbol takes place and stands for
something else. The
nature of meaning relationship (or signification) lies in the sorts of things
acting as signs (or symbols) and the sorts of things to be referred
(signified).
The power of
words, used by human minds, is in the double capacity to point out and
stand for another things. Again, there are verbal symbols and nonverbal symbols,
as vocal signs and nonvocal signs. Among the nonverbal symbols are money,
ceremonies, seals, titles, etc.
RC:
"Another interesting
aspect of your answer is that you use the word ?thing? as the most general of
all thingish words like object, plurality, stuff, material ?; is that your
mental image of the word ?thing?, as the most abstract of all
objects?
ASHA: Yes, Thing refers
to the Universal Class of all sorts of
entities, implying the universal property of all entities, whereas Nothing
refers to the Null Class .
RC: Can a ?thing?
include an action, method, plan, history of the foregoing?"
ASHA: In the broad
sense, it is a substance, state, change, process as far as " every sign is also
a thing, for what is not a thing is nothing at all".
In NL, words are the
signs of ideas and images, thoughts and feelings, while the mental
signs are the similitudes of things.
The beauty of machines
consists in that they don't require the mental signs (ideas and images) as
the medium whereby symbols (physical signals) could signify the real
things.
Azamat
Abdoullaev
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 12:20
AM
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Triadic Sign
Relations
Hi
Azamat,
You
wrote:
"That confuses me no end if Peirceans
can?t tie the theory to some commonly understood reality for me. Is
there a more fruitful description that explains the language used and chosen
for that representation?"
Rich,
The nature of signs and symbols and
significations, their definition, elements, and types, was mainly established
by Aristotle, Augustine, and Aquinas.
According to these classic sources,
significance is a relationship between two sorts of things: signs and the
kinds of things they signify (intend, express or mean), where one term
necessarily causes something else to come to the mind. Distinguishing natural
signs and conventional signs, the traditional theory of signs sets the
following threefold partition of things:
- There are things that
are just things, not any sign at all;
- There are things that
are also signs of other things (as natural signs of the physical world and
mental signs of the mind);
- There are things that
are always signs, as languages (natural and artificial) and other cultural
nonverbal symbols, as documents, money, ceremonies, and rites. see a brief
but comprehensive account, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sign
Azamat
Abdoullaev
Thanks for your view
on this; it helps me compare and contrast my own theoretical understanding
with yours.
So a familiar sign S
represents another sign S2 in one agent?s mind, yet can represent only S
itself in another agent?s mind, while simultaneously representing S3 (money, a
document ?) to still another agent?
Another interesting
aspect of your answer is that you use the word ?thing? as the most general of
all thingish words like object, plurality, stuff, material ?; is that your
mental image of the word ?thing?, as the most abstract of all
objects?
Can a ?thing? include
an action, method, plan, history of the
foregoing?
Thanks for the
stimulating viewpoint,
-Rich
Sincerely,
Rich Cooper
EnglishLogicKernel.com
Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT
com
9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1
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