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Re: [ontolog-forum] if you cannot measure

To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: ravi sharma <drravisharma@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 21:01:16 -0500
Message-id: <f872f57b0912301801m63edbf67je5ab1a1bc8e5f3ef@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Ferenc
 
Great thoughts and deeper insights.
 
Went through the links.
  1. Hyperdictionary is a useful and practical tool for knowing more about single word meanings. It touched certainly on English and on a couple of non-English language meanings and Webster's definitions etc. Are there similar tools that work on collection of words, process concepts, as next steps; for example it does not take "common logic" and is not meant anyway for that purpose. The new scientific search tool Wolfram is another one attempting to reach out for complex terms and science related aspects of search?
  2. The collective intelligence of Doug Englebart's work was vaguely familiar from my own NASA Apollo-days. We have come to realize since then that machine assisted learning is only an appendix but not a main driver of understanding.

My own comments:

  1. Obviously living organisms have varying degree of intelligence, I agree that it is difficult to yet understand - especially where tiny virus like life forms (no organ differentiation like brain?) tend to mutate and morph to forms that protect their existence similar to what we hope humanity will do with vigor if confronted with extinction due to say a cosmic predictable event such as asteroids collision. However, there appears to be subtle adaptation in the processes that govern our planet enabling conditions for species survival including creation of conditions for human life. It may turnout that humans could be (unfortunately) a reason for premature end of life forms on this planet (if collective intelligence does not work!). But there is progressive maturity of human race toward learning by observations thus it appears that ability to organize mind-thought-process is maturing as civilization materially advances, especially with gadgets while probably not advancing as much (as noted by you in earlier comments) as we hope in terms of universal development of mind-for-good-purposes or human intelligence improvement for all. Essentially I agree that technology impact and intelligence are not yet correlated.
  2. Without raising controversies, I do want to point out that because we are differentially exposed and also are genetic variants of homo-sapiens at a given time there are some very informed, knowledgeable and more praiseworthy (very few) and a lot of other good folks and their level of information or knowledge absorption could have been better impacted by better opportunities or environment, yet some arrive at understanding of nature (in science) earlier than others! Even after discoveries, how does knowledge and facts progress through humanity for (a) understanding what was discovered (e.g. relativity) and also (b) how synthesis of knowledge (information and facts related understanding - for now is good enough definition) thereafter was propagated? Thus at any given time there is difference in degree of consciousness / awareness of facts for humans in society and that is why we recognize leaders and contributors and keep quoting them. I agree that we are long ways from understanding levels of consciousness, understanding, adaptation, information and knowledge.
  3. Some philosophies do not have problem in looking at all these concepts in holistic way.
Thanks.
Ravi
(Dr. Ravi Sharma)
313 204 1740 Mobile
 
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 2:01 PM, FERENC KOVACS <f.kovacs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Thanks Azamat, I appreciate your points and references.
I have the impression that most of the verbal exchanges between humans, whether on forums like this or elsewhere, is highly superficial.What I would like to see happen is nothing in the line of essays where you seemingly have a dialog, but never get to a synthesis. I am trying to enter into a dialog a la John Dewey's disciplined mind style where nothing is left undefined, or nothing is offered as a whole book of reading when you only need a word to be explained.
In fact, there is one nice product on the internet that I think of with high regard, and it is called hyperdictionary
http://www.hyperdictionary.com/. For me it is more useful than WordNet, or any of the ontologies that I have come across with (few). It does not mean that i agree with its content, like what is written on ontology, but i see that a good start of recording and checking out all the verbal input that is not clear in an exchange.
Suppose you have concepts defined in terms of extension and intension as well, you are one more step closer to see if we are talking about the same thing or not. Moreover, we can also find out the semantic and pragmatic differences that are usually hidden in superficial discourse.

Before I start reviewing the so-called Cartesian Mind model, let me admit that i attribute intelligence (whatever that means to you) to animals, including viruses and I am also aware that for instance serotonin is mostly produced in the guts and not in the brain, etc. I also realize that ego-boundaries are flexible and are controlled by emotion, illusion and self-deception, etc. I also accept that living organisms are self-organizing systems, including human groups of people, etc. with people eager to augment intellect as the former or so-called bootstrapping society claimed to be craving only to disclose a couple of years ago that they want a cast system based on access to computing power. They removed that webpage and their name is changed now if I am not mistaken to  http://www.dougengelbart.org/about/bootstrapping-strategy.html
Now it is sickening thought that it is not the mental and intellectual development of the people is in focus, instead, it is the gadgetry that is required to outwit the humans, at home and abroad. As an example learning a second language is not deemed to be a worthwhile exercise, but financing MT projects producing garbage and spaghetti speech is not. Of course, that is not causing me a headache, but if  you  believe that
"that there is no boundary between an individual mind, cultural artifacts, other minds and the environment. This is the sure way to see how the higher-level intellectual systems emerge, collective knowledge networks and innovative knowledge communities." then you certainly do not notice the futility of the gatherings world-wide on any subject, science, politics or you name it in bringing about practical results, solutions and not meta-solutions that create new and more problems.As the case is, if you ask me.And this is not to deny the fruits of technological progress.But advanced technology is not identical with high intelligence, especially not in a system where the weakest link will determine survival.
P.S. For the past year I have been collecting various definitions of words/concepts that are used here too unquestioned, like knowledge, mind, etc.it is amazing to see how chaotic we can get in usage and interpretation. Wikipedia, the internet or other sources are no exception.
I think I should keep quite for some time and do my homework as suggested. Thank, anyway.
 





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--
Thanks.
Ravi
(Dr. Ravi Sharma)
313 204 1740 Mobile

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