Re: [ontolog-forum] [SPAM] Re: Ontology-based database integration

["Cecil O. Lynch, MD, MS" <clynch@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Kingsley,

 

I am talking about reasoning. The data sets are HL7 messages passed on disease surveillance to the US CDC. The system that we built processes an XML message, reasons against the syntax of the message to confirm the structure, reasons over the data contained in the message, to validate the terminology, then reasons against the content to determine the disease status (drug resistance pattern, treatment guideline adherence).

 

All 50 states send messages to the system.  When you start getting into the complex reasoning for these types of medical messages for an entire country, OWL does not scale.

 

Cecil O. Lynch, MD, MS

 

 

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [ontolog-forum] Ontology-based database integration
From: Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, October 09, 2009 10:41 am
To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Cecil Lynch wrote:
> John,
>
> I would say that I completely agree with you that for large volume
> transaction based systems, OWL or RDF are hopeless from a performance
> perspective.
Cecil,

What have you tested? How have you arrived at your conclusions?

You are assuming that RDBMS and RDF Graph hybridization (all the way
down to the engine core) isn't achievable, right?

What performance are we talking about? Instance data queries, reasoning
over the ABox and TBox etc.?

I really think that when we talk about data integration and the prowess
of RDF, OWL, and what can be achieved re. reasoning etc.. Best we point
to actual data available on the Web.

Links:

1. http://www4.wiwiss.fu-berlin.de/bizer/BerlinSPARQLBenchmark/ --
SPARQL Benchmark with RDBMS to RDF component

Kingsley
> That said, I think that OWL 2 is a great language for basing
> your model to ensure formalism in the development of the domain of interest,
> but then you need to hand it off to another reasoning approach.
>
> There is no perfect ONE language, including Prolog, to approach most real
> world, real time reasoning. In our experience, the best performance and
> logic come from assembling a suite of tools that can work together in an
> orchestrated services platform. There are some problems I want to address
> using DL or regression analysis, others with classification and still others
> with backward chaining. Some tools are better for each of these and I think
> the best systems use them in concert.
>
> Cecil
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@ontolog.cim3.net] On Behalf Of John F. Sowa
> Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 12:27 AM
> To: edbark@xxxxxxxx
> Cc: [ontolog-forum]
> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Ontology-based database integration
>
> Ed,
>
> I agree with most of your response to my remark, with the exception
> of one sentence.
>
> JFS>> DL is just one of a large number of logic-based technologies
> >> that produce useful results for certain kinds of problems.
> >> Unfortunately, people are being forced to use OWL for tasks
> >> that it was never designed to do. They go through contortions
> >> that make Perl look like the epitome of structured elegance.
>
>
> EB> I fully agree. Part of that is the silver bullet mentality:
> > OWL is the best technology available; so whatever contortion you
> > have to perform to use it is the best you could have done. And
> > we are both familiar with the software engineer's pride of
> > accomplishment in building a Rube Goldberg device to solve a
> > problem that would be a simple application of a technology he
> > is unfamiliar with. But we have made progress -- it is not
> > a primitive AI application coded in Fortran anymore.
>
> The point that I very strongly disagree with is that "OWL is
> the best technology available." At VivoMind, we are delighted
> when our competitors use OWL because we can translate their
> sources to Prolog and get orders of magnitude improvement over
> their "native" implementations.
>
> But for heavy-duty lifting (gigabytes and terabytes) we would
> never dream of using RDF or OWL. Those languages are hopelessly
> inadequate for truly massive volumes of data. Just note that
> Google doesn't use those languages. They know better.
>
> John
>
>
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--


Regards,

Kingsley Idehen Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
President & CEO
OpenLink Software Web: http://www.openlinksw.com





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