Mitch, (01)
That is precisely why I prefer to think in terms of meanings rather than
in terms of words when it comes to modelling real things. (02)
Once you have a model of things such as large water-courses, debt-based
securities or whatever, then you can have a completely separate
conversation about how different natural languages may or may not map
onto those. After all an ontology is really little more than something
set up in a more formal language for describing things. If the language
of OWL/RDFS or the language of CL allows me to define things with more
precision than the language of English or French, then it is a better
choice for setting down once and for all what are those things that we
are going to write computer programs to deal with. (03)
If you like to have fun with words, consider why there is only one lake
in all of Scotland :-) (04)
Mike (05)
Mitch Harris wrote:
>> According to that definition the Okavango is not a river.
>>
>
> The Okavango surely is a strange kind of river.
>
> Do you really expect to hold natural language to the same strictness
> standards as formal ones?
>
> Pardon the following longish entertainment. You can get the point stopping
> after any paragraph.
> Yes, it's fiction, so it is meaningless but evocative.
>
> ----
> From 'Master and Commander' (Patrick O'Brian)
>
> (Stephen Maturin, the ship's physician:) 'There is only one thing I don't
> care
> for , however' he said as the order was passed reverently round the
> table, 'and that is this foolish insistence on the word
> surgeon. "Do hereby appoint you surgeon...take upon you
> the employment of surgeon.. together with such allowance for
> wages and victuals for yourself as is usual for the surgeon
> of the said sloop." It is a false description and a false description
> is anathema to the philosophical mind.'
>
> 'I am sure it is anathema to the philosophical mind.' said James
> Dillon. 'But the naval mind fairly revels in it, so it does. Take
> that word sloop, for example.'
>
> 'Yes,' said Stephen, narrowing his eyes through the haze of port
> and trying to remember the definitions he had heard.
>
> 'Why, now, a sloop , as you know, is properly a one-masted vessel,
> with a fore-and-aft rig,. But in the Navy a sloop may be ship rigged
> - she may have three masts.'
>
> 'Or take the Sophie,' cried the master, anxious to bring
> his crumb of comfort. 'She's rightly a brig, you know, Doctor, with
> her to masts.' He held up two fingers, in case a landman might not
> fully comprehend so great a number. 'But the minute Captain Aubrey
> sets foot in her, why, she too becomes a sloop; for a brig is a
> lieutenant's command.'
>
> 'Or take me,' said Jack. 'I am called captain, but really I am
> only a master and commander.'
>
> 'Or the place where the men sleep, just for'ard,' said the purser,
> pointing. 'Rightly speaking, and official, 'tis the gun-deck, though
> there's never a gun on it. We call it the spar-deck - though there's
> no spars, neither - but some say the gun-deck still, and call the
> right gun-deck the upper-deck. Or take this brig, which is no true
> brig at all, not with her square mainsail, but rather a sorts of
> snow, or a hermaphrodite.'
>
> 'No,no my dear sir,' said James Dillon, 'never let a mere word
> grieve you heart. We have nominal captains' servants who are , in
> fact, midshipmen; we have nominal able seamen on our books who are
> scarcely breeched - they are a thousand miles away and still at
> school; we swear we have not shifted any backstays, when we shift them
> continually; and we take many under oaths that nobody believes-no, no
> you may call yourself as you please, so long as you do your duty. The
> Navy speaks in symbols, and you may suit what meaning you choose to
> the words.'
> ----
>
> What's the point? Maybe formalization of natural language terms need to
> follow a non-monotonic default logic? 'river' has a bunch of necessary
> defaults, which the Okavango doesn't match entirely, and so an exception
> subclass is made for 'non-emptying river'. I wouldn't be surprised if the
> geomorphologists have already come up with appropriate appellations.
>
> Mitch
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
>> Mike Bennett
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 2:06 PM
>> To: [ontolog-forum]
>> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] a skill of definition - "river"
>>
>>
>> According to that definition the Okavango is not a river.
>>
>> So it is a good example around the issues. Are stretches
>> really "Parts"
>> of a river for example?
>>
>> I guess it's possible to set out too many characteristics of
>> something,
>> rather than just those things which, by virtue of being true of an
>> individual, make it a member of that class of thing.
>>
>> There are also some interesting mappings between things known
>> as a River
>> in English, and the terms in French for similarly river-like things.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> Александр Шкотин wrote:
>>
>>> John has ask for "river" definition (n-s-conditions).
>>>
>>> I am on a way, and have a look at this one from
>>> http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/ontology/
>>>
>>> Well, this is a topographical point of view, and only n-conditions,
>>> but looks good (in Protege;):
>>>
>>> http://clip2net.com/clip/m3050/1234375380-clip-16kb.png
>>>
>>> Alex
>>>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/
> Config Subscr: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontolog-forum/
> Unsubscribe: mailto:ontolog-forum-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/
> Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/
> To join: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid1J
> To Post: mailto:ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> (06)
--
Mike Bennett
Director
Hypercube Ltd.
89 Worship Street
London EC2A 2BF
Tel: +44 (0) 20 7917 9522
Mob: +44 (0) 7721 420 730
www.hypercube.co.uk
Registered in England and Wales No. 2461068 (07)
_________________________________________________________________
Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/
Config Subscr: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontolog-forum/
Unsubscribe: mailto:ontolog-forum-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/
Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/
To join: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid1J
To Post: mailto:ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (08)
|
