At 5:51 PM +0000 1/24/08, <matthew.west@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>Dear Pat,
>
>I think you are misunderstanding Paola's real point.
>
>> At 4:35 PM +0700 1/24/08, paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
>>
>> >RANT/
>> >The important role of speculative enquiry is accepted to some extent,
>> >but a lot of effort imho is spent on research (done with
>> public money)
>> >that is not useful (enough) nor applied , or only benefits the
>> >researchers and their private clients.
>> >Research funded with public money should benefit the public at large
>
>MW: What I take from this, with some inside knowledge of how EC
>funding sometimes seems to work, is that at least some EC funded
>research projects seem to do little more than support organizations that
>appear to be set up to exploit the opportunities to gain EC research
>funding. (01)
Of course. This happens everywhere. But those
organizations have people in them, and its the
people who do the research. I don't really give a
damn about the nature of the organization: that
is just people playing at being managers in any
case. (02)
>There being little useful research, and what there is, not
>being publicly available. (03)
That is a different issue. I'm surprised that the
EC doesn't make open publication mandatory for
supported 'pure' research, in fact: even the
military and intelligence agencies do over here. (04)
> Whilst this is supposed to be OK because
>it provides seedcorn for small and start-up type companies, there are
>notably few companies that have really "made it" with an EC funded
>start. (05)
Im not interested in seeding companies. We were
talking about research, not companies. (06)
> >
>> Bullshit. This is like the standard American right-wing fantasy that
>> the government is "spending our money". The purpose of research is to
>> investigate new areas of knowledge. The benefits, if any, to this
>> mythical entity called "the public at large" may or may not accrue
>> downstream, but to demand immediate 'relevance' (to what, exactly?)
>> is to cripple research. Experience suggests that it is worth
>> investing a substantial fraction of a group's or society's available
>> effort into pure research, undertaken for no other reason than to
>> find something out. For technology companies, the ideal fraction
>> seems to be about 20%, for example (Xerox, Google, HP); for a nation
>> Im not sure of the appropriate figure, but right now the USA is way
>> below par, and its economy is suffering in large part because of that.
>
>MW: And I suspect both Paola and I would agree, especially if the
>results of the research were publicly available - where they had been
>publicly funded.
>
>MW: As an aside, I have noticed that often the best research is
>slightly underfunded. This forces collaboration and invention. Large
>research projects with large budgets only guarantee to spend the
>budget. (07)
Hmm. Tell that to the physicists or the astronomers. (08)
OK, no more political ranting from me on this forum. (09)
Pat (010)
>
>Regards
>
>Matthew West
>Reference Data Architecture and Standards Manager
>Shell International Petroleum Company Limited
>Registered in England and Wales
>Registered number: 621148
>Registered office: Shell Centre, London SE1 7NA, United Kingdom
>
>Tel: +44 20 7934 4490 Mobile: +44 7796 336538
>Email: matthew.west@xxxxxxxxx
>http://www.shell.com
>http://www.matthew-west.org.uk/
>
>
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