Thanks a lot all for reiteratioms (got the point thanks)
somehow however I am still not convinced that a hole is 'something' in the same way (or equivalent) to what's around it. surely what's around a hole is of a different nature from the hole itself, so it would not be correct to say to define them in the same way
but I accept that you may want to define it by virtue of whats around it
(if thats the only thing you can do).
I am not ready to argue this sensibly, sorry - just will keep on observing (hole staring) and will report back when I see something there
thanks
PDM
On 9/20/07, Jack Teller <drjackteller@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
A "hole" is a "something" that requires another "something" in its
definition of existence, as in: "There's a _hole_ in the _bucket_, dear
Liza..."
Jack
Peter F Brown wrote:
>
> A hole is not the same as a "nothing" – there are two separate threads
> in this discussion: are we not talking about two different "things" (I
> use the word advisedly and very cautiously)?
>
> Peter B
>
> *From:* ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
] *On Behalf Of *Deborah
> MacPherson
> *Sent:* 18 September 2007 20:01
> *To:* [ontolog-forum]
> *Subject:* Re: [ontolog-forum] entity: nothing
>
> Hi Paola -
>
> The Cage analogy came around to silence being able to be bounded by
> sound. Carved sculptures take away unwanted material until only the
> essential parts remain. In museum design certain content is not ready
> to be named but it can be classified, subject areas yet to be defined
> are left as blank, un-labeled placeholders allocating space, hoping
> future requirements will fit without rearranging everything again.
>
> More to your point surely is John's statement "more like a boundary
> than pure nothingness". So with the stretched metaphors above.....What
> do you think needs to be bounded? What are opposite each other inside
> and outside the boundaries? What could possibly be consistent across a
> range of ontologies? What existing communication system like OWL, or
> ___, or ___, or ___ is best suited to indicating a boundary? How do
> you know when you encounter a boundary? Simply won't process? How do
> you "see" the holes and can you measure how big or small they are?
>
> Deborah
>
> On 9/18/07, *paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:
paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx>*
> <paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>
> I am not entirely sure that we have not yet answered this, I may have
> missed somethin
>
> Following the discussion on holes, the one questrion that I am left
> with is whether
> holes are entities as such, or non entities and
>
> if so
> whether they would belong to a ' class of nothing' being
> proposed/discussed somewhere earlier on this forum
>
> It looks to me that they are non entity cause they dont have a mass
> that can be measured
> I mean an entity is determined by its attributes and properties while
> the only property of a hole that we can say is 'absence of energy'
>
> This is an attempt to bring the hole discussion into the focus of
> current ontological question
>
> apologies if this is trivial
>
>
> --
> Paola Di Maio
> School of IT
> www.mfu.ac.th <http://www.mfu.ac.th>
> *********************************************
>
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