Thanks Peter
The problem would be that there is a lot of material discussed or referenced on the list which is not open content, nor open source code -
(a) 'published' may or may not mean 'open content' - we are requiring
the latter.
do you mean that all the references and discussions about the contents of papers and journal or book that says 'copyright by' are 'illegal'?
(b) we *are* asking people to release their code.
If people in their discussions reference their approach and architecture, there is no code involved. I do not expect a commercial company to change their business model just to post a few lines on this forum, but I do expect individuals who work for companies
to be able to post here and discuss their knowledge, as so many do, provided its not a direct sales pitch
right?
P
Regards. =ppy
--
On 9/17/07, paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx <paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> It is inappropriate to focus the discussion on a product, however,
> many proprietary products are based on existing theories and ideas
> that are 'published' ie open
>
> I dont think we are asking anyone to release the code of their
> product, but to avoid referencing it directly when making a
> discussion point
>
> You should have a paper or a presentation tha presents the theoretical
> background of your work - say your approach - and that is
> 'implementation independent' , and then you can refer to it at will.
> Maybe just a wiki page on your site, where you can add and take, and
> make free contributions to (bet your clients would like that)
>
> Many of the research papers that we cite on this list, are
> unfortunately, copyrighted and unavailable to the public. I hope you
> appreciate the effort of this group to make knowledge accessible, one
> of its most noble goals, perhaps - never mind the pettyness at times -
>
> I think if you could reference papers instad of a proprietary
> implementation to make your argument would be acceptable as a
> reference in your discussion
>
> Btw Dennis, I am not doing work on quadruples (I wish) but a lot of
> reading of inteesting stuff and the quads came up on a list I
> remembered having seen different interestin arguments for it
> So my only merit is to bring the discussion up and maybe spotting a
> possible evolutionary trend there
>
> cheers
> PDM
>
> On 9/18/07, Dennis L. Thomas <DLThomas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > Peter,
> >
> > Our software is proprietary.
> >
> > In response to Azamat's statement, "I had some communication with
> > Richard B. and found him as an open-minded person, committed to
> > advancing the cause of knowledge systems." I must agree. Dick is a
> > large, unbounded thinker. Teaching is in his blood as much as any
> > participant on this forum. It is a deep desire of his to share what
> > he has learned - or at least, some of this discoveries and secrets.
> > The rest is meant for the marketplace.
> >
> > If he chooses to respond, I am sure he will.
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> >
> > On Sep 17, 2007, at 3:44 PM, Peter Yim wrote:
> >
> > Azamat,
> >
> > Thank you for the suggestion. Believe I did ask Dennis previously
> > whether his software/technology is open or proprietary. I don't
> > believe he responded in the affirmative.
> >
> > Let me ask again, politely,
> >
> > Dennis, is the system/technology you are discussing ("Mark 3") a "free
> > software" or "open sourced" ('free' or 'open' as defined in our IPR
> > policy* - http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid32)
> > ?
> >
> > Regards. =ppy
> >
> > P.S. Azamat, to make sure we don't misunderstand each other, may I
> > politely request that you review how the "free software", "open
> > source" and "open content" licenses are defined in our IPR Policy.
> > Thanks. =ppy
> > --
> >
> >
> > On 9/17/07, Azamat <abdoul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > Peter,
> > > If politely asked they might open their knowledge technology
> > > secrets, thus
> > > enriching our discussion. As i remember, I had some communication with
> > > Richard B. and found him as an open-minded person, committed to
> > > advancing
> > > the cause of knowledge systems.
> > > Azamat
> >
> >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Peter Yim" <
peter.yim@xxxxxxxx>
> > > To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 11:19 PM
> > > Subject: [ontolog-forum] Appropriate to discuss [was - Re: ontospam]
> > >
> > >
> > >> Azamat,
> > >>
> > >>> [AA] Dennis Thomas must be a good researcher, maybe, with
> > >>> some funny ideas about semantics, ontology, and knowledge.
> > >>
> > >> [ppy] maybe, but that is irrelevant ... as long as he has opted to
> > >> keep his technology and work proprietary (and not openly sharing
> > >> it in
> > >> accordance with our 'open' IPR Policy), it makes it inappropriate
> > >> material for discussion in this 'open forum' (except during
> > >> 'specially
> > >> arranged' events/settings.)
> > >>
> > >> Regards. =ppy
> > >>
> > >> Peter Yim
> > >> Co-convener, Ontolog
> > >> --
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 9/17/07, Azamat <abdoul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> It seems the forum needs not only more professional focusing on
> > >>> ontology
> > >>> but
> > >>> some patience to others positions, worldviews, and projects.
> > >>>
> > >>> Dennis Thomas must be a good researcher, maybe, with some funny
> > >>> ideas
> > >>> about
> > >>> semantics, ontology, and knowledge. And he looks to be frank
> > >>> promoting
> > >>> his
> > >>> project as much as it is persistently done with CL, IKL, etc.
> > >>> As a private investigator, he might say more interesting ideas
> > >>> than the
> > >>> cold
> > >>> and stale things one used to hear from the academic investigators.
> > >>> It should be observed that most radical breakthroughs the science
> > >>> and
> > >>> technology expect from private researchers, like William Dobelle,
> > >>> who was
> > >>> the first neuroscientist, inventing an operative brain implant, a
> > >>> brain-computer interface, to restore sight, acquired blindness.
> > >>>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_H._Dobelle
> > >>> The same rule applies to fundamental ontology and its critical
> > >>> technological
> > >>> application, semantic web.
> > >>>
> > >>> Azamat Abdoullaev
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>> From: "Pat Hayes" <phayes@xxxxxxx>
> > >>> To: "[ontolog-forum]" <
ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >>> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 8:22 PM
> > >>> Subject: [ontolog-forum] ontospam (was: Re: Current Semantic Web
> > >>> Layer
> > >>> pizza
> > >>> (was ckae))
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>> Folks,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Allow me to suggest that we refrain from responding to such
> > >>>> obviously
> > >>>> nonsensical and vacuous expressions of institutionalized
> > >>>> ignorance as
> > >>>> the recent postings on this thread. My response, after some cursory
> > >>>> checking to verify that the claims are indeed as nonsensical as
> > >>>> they
> > >>>> sound (in this case, for example, the fact that the world of
> > >>>> Thomas,
> > >>>> Ballard and KFI is entirely self-referring and self-contained, with
> > >>>> no connection to any scholarly or published work for the last 20
> > >>>> years; and that if its claims were even partly correct, it would by
> > >>>> now have put Oracle out of business) is to simply create an email
> > >>>> filter to auto-trash such stuff. Arguing with these people is like
> > >>>> arguing with creationists about evolution.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Let me propose that we adopt the term "ontospam" for this kind of
> > >>>> input, in order that we can all save one anothers' time by using it
> > >>>> to categorize such inputs quickly and precisely. It is pretty
> > >>>> easy to
> > >>>> recognize, see for example
> > >>>>
http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?DennisThomas.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Pat Hayes
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> IHMC (850)434 8903 or (650)494 3973 home
> > >>>> 40 South Alcaniz St. (850)202 4416 office
> > >>>> Pensacola (850)202 4440 fax
> > >>>> FL 32502 (850)291 0667 cell
> > >>>> phayesAT-SIGNihmc.us http://www.ihmc.us/users/phayes
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> _________________________________________________________________
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> > >>>
> > >>>
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> > >>
> > >> _________________________________________________________________
> > >> Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/
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> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
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> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > Dennis L. Thomas
> > Knowledge Foundations, Inc.
> > Ofc (714) 890-5984
> > Cell (760) 500-9167
> > DLThomas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > http://www.KnowledgeFoundations.com
> > ------------------------------------------------
> > Managing the Complexity of Enterprise Knowledge
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dennis L. Thomas
> > Knowledge Foundations, Inc.
> > Ofc (714) 890-5984
> > Cell (760) 500-9167
> > DLThomas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > http://www.KnowledgeFoundations.com
> > ------------------------------------------------
> > Managing the Complexity of Enterprise Knowledge
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Paola Di Maio
> School of IT
> www.mfu.ac.th
> *********************************************
>
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