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Re: [ontolog-forum] to concept or not to concept, is this a question?

To: "Pat Hayes" <phayes@xxxxxxx>
Cc: ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 09:40:49 +0700
Message-id: <c09b00eb0706141940q755a80ch775c7ee019d60ae5@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
HI Pat

concept are mental constructs, not sure how to distinguish them from ideas, but I think
there are different stages of thinking, still largerly not /observed/understood, and pertaining to
the domain of brain and mind studies.  Maybe that's why they look mysterious

Something to do with abstract knowledge representation I think, which is the formation of mental models generated by the core of our central processing system and not yet formalized/expressed in procedural logical form.  One of the stages of logical thinking perhaps.

words are the next stage, where concept are 'expressed' and 'communicated' in linguistic form

 while concepts can exist without words, words cannot exist without the conepts they convey

I respect if someone prefers not to use c  class words, for whatever reason, but I think
concepts and derived words are a very precise name for a 'class of abstract knowledge, that we cannot do without in ontology. 

You may also prefer to use other words, for your own reasons, which is fine. but I must defend the proper use of the c words conveys exactly a very important meaning which is fundamental to discourse, and that there is no reason to become obsessesed (and spreading this obsession to others!).  When we avoid using the right words for things, we end up
going an awful lot in circles, while a simple right word will do the trick just fine

I agree with you that sometimes we could make an effort and try to be more precise with our language

If it comes to it, I ll write a paper too, and will definitely have to look for funding fro this one


Paola Di Maio

On 6/14/07, Pat Hayes <phayes@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>I am writing up against a deadline and suddenly
>I realise that one of the foundational artifacts
>in ontology is being questioned on this list
>'the concept'. and 'the conceptualization'
>  If I take out the word concept from all the
>papers that I am referencing, ontology as a
>science end ups like a colander, full of holes
>If I take out concepts from my mind, my brain
>stops thinking. I cannot see anything anymore. I
>go blind Everything in my mind is a concept, as
>far as I can tell.

Have you no ideas, no thoughts, no propositions
you will assent to or deny? When you speak and
write, you use words. All of these are much more
concrete than 'concepts'.

>Yet I now feel that, given these discussion,
>maybe I should justify the word 'concept each
>time I use it (by concept I mean....)

That's what comes from talking to too many philosophers. :-)

>somehow this is slowing me down This question has started to bug me
>I personally think that 'concept' is a rather
>elementary and necessary _expression_ of thinking
>and a artifact of knowledge representation
>Have you,  guys who don't think with concepts,
>written a paper, are you serious, or just joking?

Im serious.

>What are you going to substitute concept with?

Nothing. Im going to do without it. I don't know
what they are, these concept-thingies. I know
what language and Krep are, and I know what
logics and formalisms are. And I know, well
enough for our purposes, what the world is like
(and where to find out more if I need to). Thats
all I seem to need. Why confuse things by adding
mysterious concepts?


>Thanks a lot
>Paola Di Maio *****(slightly disturbed)
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Paola Di Maio *****
School of Information Technology
Mae Fah Luang University
Chiang Rai - Thailand

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