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Re: [ontolog-forum] OWL and lack of identifiers

To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: Waclaw Kusnierczyk <Waclaw.Marcin.Kusnierczyk@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 19:37:12 +0200
Message-id: <462262C8.1050701@xxxxxxxxxxx>
John F. Sowa wrote:
> Patrick,
> 
>  > Yes, but would you agree that there is no one
>  > universal space-time coordinate system such that
>  > any physical object could have two or more unique
>  > identifiers in different coordinate systems?
> 
> There is no problem with having multiple naming systems
> if there is a one-to-one mapping between them.
> 
> For example, there's a one-to-one mapping between
> rectangular coordinates (x,y,z) and polar coordinates
> with a radial distance r and two angles (assuming, of
> course, that you treat angles modulo 360 degrees as
> identical).  For some applications, one coordinate
> system might be better than the other, but you can
> always transform one system to the other.    (01)

Theoretically, yes.  In many real-life cases there would be a loss of 
informations, since real (possibly irrational) numbers may be involved, 
and practical systems have limits on their representation of numbers.
(But this is an implementational detail.)    (02)

> But there are many issues about systems for which
> there is no unique mapping and for which there is
> no clear idea of what exactly is being identified.
> 
> For example, a URI that points to a location uniquely
> identifies that location.  But what happens with the
> following cases:
> 
>   1. The contents at that location change over time.    (03)

I would say: nothing happens.  If the URI points to a location (given 
some arbitrary system of coordinates), the change of the content of the 
location does not change the location.    (04)

>   2. The contents move to another location.    (05)

See above.    (06)


>   3. The contents are identical to the contents at
>      many other locations.    (07)

Weird;  what sort of identity do you have in mind?  Indiscernibility? 
Relative identity?    (08)

>   4. The contents can be interpreted in many different
>      ways -- e.g., does the URI identify a web page or
>      the service supported at that web site?    (09)

But here clearly you mean a URI that identifies the content of a region, 
not the region.  These should not be confused.  But I agree that URIs 
supposed to identify a resource are often heavily underspecified as to 
what they actually identify.  Now, if the content of a region moves to 
another location, preserving its identity, then a URI pointing to the 
previous location no longer traces the content (but note:  if it 
identified the location, it did not identify its content.)    (010)

> 
> Similar problems occur with most other naming systems,
> but they become especially difficult when you're talking
> about abstract stuff like information.    (011)

Yes, and this is why the assumption behind semantic web technologies 
that a URI should identify the same entity on every occasion should be 
treated with highest suspicion.    (012)

Regards,
Wacek    (013)

> 
> John
> 
> 
>  
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-- 
Wacek Kusnierczyk    (015)

------------------------------------------------------
Department of Information and Computer Science (IDI)
Norwegian University of Science and Technology (NTNU)
Sem Saelandsv. 7-9
7027 Trondheim
Norway    (016)

tel.   0047 73591875
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