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Re: [ontolog-forum] Ontology and methodology

To: "[ontolog-forum] " <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "Cassidy, Patrick J." <pcassidy@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 17:43:29 -0400
Message-id: <6ACD6742E291AF459206FFF2897764BE0170C5E3@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Peter,
   My emphasis regarding the Common Foundation Ontology was on
**accurate**.
   I think that fascinating things can come from the collective wisdom
and contributions of many people, and I expect that over time the
coordination of multiple independently and uncoordinated ontologies
might be achieved to a certain extent by evolutionary consensus
accelerated by statistical analysis and data mining.  But the end
result of that will almost certainly look like a human language, but
with a higher degree of ambiguity and synonymy.  Human language took
thousands of years to evolve, and I imagine that with the internet it
will go faster, but the end result will be the same: people will be
using the same terms to refer to different concepts and multiple terms
to refer to the same concept.  We already have some wonderful human
languages, and I don't feel any need for another.  What we *can* use is
a computer language with the expressivity of a human language, but
which has a core of widely (not necessarily universally) agreed-on
defining concepts so that independently developed ontologies, using the
same core for their specification of meanings, can exchange definitions
and have a far better chance (not perfect) of drawing the same
conclusions from the same data.    (01)

Pat    (02)

Patrick Cassidy
CNTR-MITRE
260 Industrial Way West
Eatontown NJ 07724
Eatontown: 732-578-6340
Cell: 908-565-4053
pcassidy@xxxxxxxxx    (03)


> -----Original Message-----
> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 
> Peter F Brown
> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 4:33 PM
> To: [ontolog-forum] 
> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Ontology and methodology
> 
> Pat:
> I think you're right, although this does raise the question that's
> covered in Jeff Pollock's slide deck (referenced by Peter Yim on the
> Summit mailing list[1]): ontologies can be mob-driven, automatically
> generated, peer-reviewed or mandated in a top-down manner - are they
> going to grow organically and, if so, what's the "DNA" that's
enabling
> that, or are they going to be built synthetically, by order or
recipe?
> 
> The sort of project you talk about could well be the sort of 
> thing that
> could attract research funding through the EU's research 
> programme, and
> there are people this side of the pond who would be interested in
> pursuing this, I'm sure.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Peter
> 
> [1]
> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/sweo/public/2007/Pollock.SDForum.Ont
> ology-vs-F
> olksonomy.small.ppt
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Cassidy,
> Patrick J.
> Sent: 19 March 2007 22:01
> To: [ontolog-forum] 
> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Ontology and methodology
> 
> Two comments in response to Peter Brown's reply:
> (interspersed)
> 
> [Peter Brown]
> > 
> > -1, except for the word "comprehensibility" (as long as you 
> > include non
> > philosophers, ontologists, etc in that target audience).
> > 
> > Engineering-led projects without architects may perform great on
> their
> > own, but they often suck when it comes to being understood by
anyone
> > other than the original designers or fitting in with anything else.
> An
> > ontology development without any desire for, or perspective
towards,
> > interoperability - with anyone beyond their own territory - 
> > is likely to
> > be abstract, academic, hot-air: you may as well just hand
everything
> > back to the programmers of old and let them grok everything using
> > variables in their preferred programming language...
> > 
> [PC]
>   Interoperability creates its own additional imperatives, yes.  I am
> convinced that **accurate** interoperability (getting the same
> inferences from the same data) requires use of a common foundation
> ontology - and the 'foundation ontology' is only the set of ontology
> elements (types, relations, axioms) required to permit the needed
> specification of the meanings of the domain elements that people will
> wish to formalize, in FOL at a minimum.  I call that the 'Conceptual
> Defining Vocabulary".  I don't know what size foundation ontology
will
> be necessary and sufficient, but suspect that it will be in the
> 5000-10000 concept range.  I'm trying some experiments to 
> discover what
> that will be.  I think that such a foundation ontology is unlikely to
> be adopted widely until someone with a compelling application makes
> their foundation ontology available, in a form that's easier to learn
> than Cyc or the Java programming language.  Or alternatively, some
> funding agency actually funds the development of such an ontology by
a
> large collaborative effort, with interfaces and applications ($10-20
> million over 2-3 years I expect).  I suspect that many of us may be
> sufficiently exhausted by the debates to be ready for that.
> 
> [Peter Brown]
> > I'm not convinced there is yet even a partial reply to my 
> > original post
> > starting this thread:
> > 
> > " My frustration with many of the threads on this list (and the
> Summit
> > list - although I admit that I'm no longer sure what goes where...)
> is
> > that there seems to be a lot of discussion over detail - of 
> > how to model
> > this, or how to present that - and not enough to the bigger 
> pictures:
> > who should be involved in ontology development? What 
> > qualifies them and
> > how can you judge? How do you start to develop an ontology? 
> > Should you?
> > How do you introduce quality control? Who decides? Where's the
> process
> > when you need one?"
> > 
> > Any answers on *these* questions? ;-)
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Peter
> > 
> 
> [PC] Does anyone think we need a "Institute of Ontological 
> Engineering"
> that awards licenses after a qualifying exam??  Should we conjure up
> such an exam?  Perhaps we can have grades: apprentice, journeyman,
> Master?
> 
> More immediately, would it be possible to have a reviewed journal of
> ontological engineering that is freely available on the 
> internet?   . .
> . So we can accelerate the process of coalescing as a scientific
> discipline?  I can't afford the existing print journals.
> 
> Pat
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Pat
> Hayes
> > Sent: 19 March 2007 21:04
> > To: Cassidy, Patrick J.
> > Cc: [ontolog-forum] 
> > Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Ontology and methodology
> > 
> > >My advice is to boldly go and do what makes sense in your 
> domain....
> 
> > >It is unlikely you will run into
> > >logical contradictions, and in engineering the information
> > >infrastructure, aesthetics should take a second place to
> > >comprehensibility and efficiency.
> > 
> > +1. Should be written in pokerwork and hung over the entry door of 
> > every Ontology Engineering Laboratory :-)
> > 
> > Pat Hayes
> > -- 
> > 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > IHMC                (850)434 8903 or (650)494 3973   home
> > 40 South Alcaniz St.        (850)202 4416   office
> > Pensacola                   (850)202 4440   fax
> > FL 32502                    (850)291 0667    cell
> > phayesAT-SIGNihmc.us       http://www.ihmc.us/users/phayes
> > 
> >  
> Patrick Cassidy
> CNTR-MITRE
> 260 Industrial Way West
> Eatontown NJ 07724
> Eatontown: 732-578-6340
> Cell: 908-565-4053
> pcassidy@xxxxxxxxx
>  
>  
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