The reason I brought this up is that the ability to distinguish between what is
a 'natural kind' and what is a role is very important in modeling (large-scale)
ontologies, as it can prevent ontological errors/wrong assumptions. (01)
An example from SNOMED (not to criticize, this is a fine terminology otherwise):
Chromium ISA trace element, doesn't sound bad, however trace element is
modelled as: isa nutrient, nutrient isa dietary substance, eg chromium is
restricted to being a dietary substance, but it can be much more than that. All
these parents for chromium can be considered role-like concepts instead. (02)
In this respect Chromium isa heavy metal, isa metal, isa atomic element might
perhaps be more foolproof. (03)
Trying to formulate guidelines (or provide a definition or similar) to identify
'roles' from natural kinds is big challenge, my message was that the statement
'they can be recognized by the properties they have' is still very subjective &
open for interpretation . (04)
-----Original Message-----
From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of
matthew.west@xxxxxxxxx
Sent: maandag 19 maart 2007 15:45
To: ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Ontology and methodology (05)
Dear David, (06)
>
> Note that one might also debate on the nature of 'enzyme', is
> that a protein, or a role that can inhere in a protein? (07)
MW: The question I would ask is: Is an enzyme what I call a
protein when it is involved in some reaction, and the rest of
the time it is not an enzyme, or is an enzyme and enzyme
independent of what reactions (or toher activies) it is
involved in (and I have only hte vagest idea what an enzyme
is so I don't know the answer for this particular case, but
it is probably obvious to you). (08)
> >FP> Why should employee be a role while chair is not?
>
> >For very good reasons: a chair can be recognized by the
> >properties it has in itself without looking at anything else
> >(but one can use things that are not chairs *as* a chair).
> >But you can't tell whether a person is an employee without
> >considering something else. See the KR book for a discussion
> >of Firstness, Secondness, and Thirdness.
>
> >John
>
> To add to the discussion:
> It might be hard to recognize a transferase (kind of enzyme)
> by the properties it has, but maybe not impossible, so we
> enter the grey zone there, is it a role, or an actual enzyme
> characterized by the possible role/function it (can) bear?
> Simply said, identifying whether something is a 'natural
> kind' or a role might be very hard in some cases and
> completely depends on the level of granularity of your
> ontology or the background of the modeler. (09)
MW: Actually if you want a harder case, you can look at
intentionally constructed objects. Take a pebble on a beach.
A person picks it up deciding that it would make a good
paper weight. You could argue that it being a paper weight
is determined by that intentional act, and from then on there
is a new object that is the intentionally constructed paper
weight. You could also argue that it is just a pebble, and
that it is only a paper weight when it is actually in the
role of holding down some papers.
>
> David
>
>
>
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