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Re: [ontolog-forum] Disruptive squeal at our conference call today (2006

To: "'[ontolog-forum] '" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: Atilla Elçi (DAÜ) <atilla.elci@xxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 11:58:13 +0200
Message-id: <0cfb01c6fb40$c0857bd0$444e1bc2@ElciDU>
Hi Peter,    (01)

Reason for disruption in the cases of articles 1c & 1d below
is likely to be positive feedback from speaker-to-mic. This
would not only cause echo but would tend to enhance loudness
gradually over time. If one doesn't use a headphone-cum-mic
with a NB and instead rely on the NB's speakers and a
separate mic that is what happens. Same is quite likely with
desktop computer especially when the user is not talking,
which is usually the case with our telconfcalls. The mics
used by PC/NB users are "dynamic", meaning that they tend to
elevate environment noise if there is no other source of
sound nearby.
The obvious remedy is to use a headphone-cum-mic, and to
keep mic muted when not needed.    (02)

Ref. 2c, I'd like to point out that FreeConferences.com
definitely discourages use of Skype/Vonage-like VoIP
services. Whever I dial in, I have considerable difficulty
getting the conference access code accepted by the service.
Often the code recieved by the service is not correct and
consequently the connection is dropped after the
announcement requesting me to not use Skype/Vonage/Cellular
VoIP services. I have to dial in QUITE a few times to get
accepted. At times I can't succeed in so many tries that I
simply get frustrated and give up trying. 
FreeConferences.com appear to have no operator on duty to
handle such cases to take in access code verbally. Intel
Conference Services however has person on duty to assist
callers not only in the above cases but also to advise them
if any one tries to connect at wrong times, for example, too
early or too late or at wrong date. These latter cases I
believe happen a lot due to the global nature of our
membership.    (03)

Have a good day. / Iyi günler dilerim.
Atilla Elçi
http://www.sinconf.org/ http://www.abg-sinconf.org/
-----Original Message-----
From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Peter P. Yim
Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 3:55 AM
To: [ontolog-forum]
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Disruptive squeal at our
conference call today (2006.10.26) [was - Re: Skype]    (04)

1. To share my experience and add a few more 
data-points for the situation:    (05)

(a) we never used to have this 'squeal' before, until
our Thu 2006.10.19 session. (So, this problem is new 
... only appearing in the last week or so!)    (06)

(b) For the past several weeks, I had been running a 
parallel Skype session (and using that to conference 
Nabonita Guha into the session from India.) And, it 
worked ok before.    (07)

(c) On Thu 2006.10.19, I did the same, but attempted to 
use my notebook computer (rather than my desktop) to 
run the Skype session. That, though, seemed to* (or, 
were among one of those who) introduce the 'squeal' 
into conference call. I changed back to running the 
Skype session from my desktop, and the call went 
through properly.    (08)

(d) On Thu 2006.10.26, I did the same thing ... 
although this time, neither my notebook, nor my desktop 
seemed to work. Both were, apparently, introducing the 
'squeal.' In fact, even my land-line call seemed to* be 
ending up with the 'squeal.'    (09)

(e) *The above said, there is actually no way** I can 
tell  whether it was REALLY 'me' who introduced the 
'squeal' (because the conference line could already be 
'squealing' due to another person when I connect into it!)    (010)

  ... [** (unless we isolate the connections, have 
someone monitoring, and then add one person at a time)]    (011)

2. (a) I had an extensive discussion with the bridge 
technician from freeconference.com. He did say that 
calling in via VoIP has in fact been causing problems 
(bad voice quality), particularly if the caller is 
working from a location where the bandwidth to the 
Internet is challenged.    (012)

(b) I explained that our problem wasn't one of line 
quality, but rather, it seems that someone connected in 
with the signal phase reversed, and causing (runaway) 
positive feedback into the line.    (013)

(c) I asked if they are beginning a policy to try to 
stop people using VoIP calls (Skype, in particular.) He 
said "No", they don't do that, and has no intention to 
do it.    (014)

(d) he said, though, that they are also investigating a 
problem themselves, where apparently, a certain MCI 
trunk from the Washington DC area (for certain calling 
card users) seems to be causing the type of problem (a 
'squeal') when a calls connects in from there.    (015)

(e) he explains that the same calling card would 
generally always route you to the same trunk.    (016)

(f) further, he said, that calling cards are 
leveraging, more and more, on VoIP technologies too.    (017)

3. Based on the above, I'd still hope to receive more 
input from you folks, especially if,    (018)

(i) you were calling in via Skype yesterday, and it 
work (or didn't work);    (019)

(ii) you were calling in via another VoIP service 
yesterday, and it work (or didn't work); and    (020)

(iii) you were calling in via a land line yesterday, 
and it didn't seem to work. In this case, please advise 
if you were using a calling card (which company's), and 
where you were calling from, geographically.    (021)

4. I am thinking (out loud), maybe we could start 15 
minute early for certain participants (skype users; 
calling card users, ... etc.) to make sure the 
conference line is stable. However, I think I need more 
input before we should come to conclusions.    (022)

5. Other ideas or suggestions are welcomed.    (023)

Regards.  =ppy
--    (024)

Peter Yim wrote Thu, 26 Oct 2006 13:01:32 -0700:
> All Ontolog Event participants,
> Sorry for starting late today (last week too) due to this
disruptive squeal.
> Thank you, Chris, for the message, and for doing the test.
> I know (I've been among them) Skype used to work ... and
this squeal
> has only started happening since our last conference call
on Thu
> 19-Oct-2006 (prior to that, we've never has this kind of
> before.)
> I'd love to see others who has an insight, especially if
you called
> in, and we had to ask you to hang up (sorry, we weren't
trying to be
> rude), to share your experience with us, so that we can
all learn what
> is ok and what isn't.
> In the mean time, I'll try to contact FreeConference.com
to see if
> that actually something they are doing, and where are they
> with it. ... I'll let everyone know the outcome, and set
> guidelines for future event call-in's.
> Regards.  =ppy
> --    (025)

> On 10/26/06, Christopher Menzel <cmenzel@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> Peter,
>> I remembered that someone wrote to the Ontolog list and
said that he
>> was going to try to dial via Skype.  On a hunch about the
cause of
>> the horrid whistle that almost destroyed Pat's talk, I
just tried
>> that myself.  Sure enough, the whistle started right up
again.  I
>> ended the call immediately of course.  So that's your
culprit --
>> obviously, Skype calls need to be banned.  Sorry for the
>> but there was no other easy way to prove the point.
>> -chris    (026)

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