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All,
You need to do the second session before you do the first. This
challenge is a 'thinking' problem more than it is a technology
problem. And, it is also an architecture and a workflow
issue. Having worked on these problems for about 15 years now I
can tell you that there is no technical solution that doesn't require a
supporting architecture, careful planning, and an investment of
time. To integrate structured/semistructured/unstructured
information, you need a different kind of architecture.
You can succeed big time, though, and gain real productivity and access improvements if you take a thoughtful approach.
Best regards,
Denise
Best regards,
Denise
-----ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote: -----
To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "Peter P. Yim" <peter.yim@xxxxxxxx>
Sent by: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: 02/03/2006 03:52PM
Subject: Tagging Ontolog content [was - Re: [ontolog-forum] ONTOLOG forum podcast]
> [Max] the new podcast schema (I think 2.0) which allows you
> to add some forms of annotations and pointers during the
> podcast. So for instance you can add different images so
> that as the podcast plays, the image (we have none for now)
> that is displayed in iTunes would change.
[ppy] re:image - the speakers' slide(s) would be a natural candidate!
> [Max] We should brainstorm and discuss some more.
> Nicolas/Peter (others) any suggestions on how to proceed?
> I am happy to continue via email and then do some live
> discussion.
[ppy] ... something more concrete: how about organizing a
two-part technical discussion series,
(a) the first session surveying the relevant technology that's
"out there" now: ... topic maps, swoop, folksonomy, UIMA ... etc.
(especially those for unstructured and semistructured content), and
(b) the second session devoted to a discussion on what we want to
do (with the Ontolog content), and how we could proceed ... with
this possibly leading up to another Ontolog project.
We can do (a) as early as Feb. 16 or Feb. 23, 2006, if both of
you (Nicolas and Max) are willing to co-moderate (and, obviously,
co-organize) it. The challenge would be: Can you pull together
the real gurus for that in short order? If the answer it yes,
that would be just great!
Additional volunteers and input from everyone are welcomed.
Cheers. =ppy
--
Michael Maximilien wrote Fri, 3 Feb 2006 11:52:33 -0800:
>
> > Max: is podcasting ontolog forum discussions sufficiently practical &
> > reasonable
> > in terms of resource demands to do on a systematic basis?
>
> Yes.
>
> > If yes, then this raises a number of interesting possibilities that
> > could help us better "digest our own ontology food"
>
> You mean 'dogfooding', I like that :-)
>
> > For example, Nicola Guarino used the famous "red rose" example in his
> > presentation of DOLCE
> > (see http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2006_02_02)
>
> I just added his talk to the podcast.
>
> (Just downloaded it so that I listen to it over the week-end :-) I had
> to miss most of it...)
>
> > Wouldn't it be great then to be able to annotate the podcast w/ a
> > pointer to an example ontology built (for example)
> > using Swoop from the public URL of DOLCE in a way that includes "back"
> > annotation links to the podcast
> > to establish a 3-way link among
>
> Yes. This is very interesting indeed.
>
> In that same spirit but more from a engineering point of view, I would
> also point the group (I am sure you are aware of this) to the UIMA
> (http://uima-framework.sourceforge.net/) work and also the new podcast
> schema (I think 2.0) which allows you to add some forms of annotations
> and pointers during the podcast. So for instance you can add different
> images so that as the podcast plays, the image (we have none for now)
> that is displayed in iTunes would change.
>
> What you are suggesting is a more generic version of that... very cool.
>
> > Annotations need to be "first-class" things that can themselves be
> > annotated.
> > In this case, the above annotation is an example of the distinction
> > between descriptions (3) and situations (1) in DOLCE.
>
> Yes.
>
> BTW, (you probably know this as well) but here is a pointer to a paper
> by Tom Gruber on folksonomy and ontology where he begins a model for
> representing tagging and essentially making them "first-class".
>
>http://tomgruber.org/writing/ontology-of-folksonomy.htm
>
> (I believe, in addition to Peter, two or three others may have suggested
> Tom's paper to me---including John Domingue when I met him in A'dam
> during ICSOC last November)
>
> > The mindswappers have shown that doing annotations and referencing to
> > subsets of ontologies is technically doable.
> > One relevant question is whether the tools/mechanisms/infrastructure to
> > do it could be deployed as an on-going service for this forum.
>
> Interesting. It's doable. There are a variety of possibilities,
> including using/creating services that allow content to be
> tagged/annotated and then composing/mashing that with the Wiki. It
> might take some engineering effort but definitely doable...
>
> We should brainstorm and discuss some more. Nicolas/Peter (others) any
> suggestions on how to proceed? I am happy to continue via email and
> then do some live discussion.
>
> Best,
>
> E. M. (Max) Maximilien, Ph.D.
> IBM Almaden Research Center
> San Jose, CA USA
> maxim@xxxxxxxxxx
> Homepage: http://maximilien.org
> ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote on 02/03/2006 11:15:29 AM:
>
> > Thanks Peter for the heads-up/reminder.
> >
> > Max: is podcasting ontolog forum discussions sufficiently practical &
> > reasonable
> > in terms of resource demands to do on a systematic basis?
> >
> > If yes, then this raises a number of interesting possibilities that
> > could help us better "digest our own ontology food"
> > with related technology support (e.g., Swoop's annotation support &
> > Annotea server, publicly available ontolgies
> > w/ sufficiently axiomatized content adequate for reasoning analysis --
> > e.g., SUMO, DOLCE, ...)
> >
> > For example, Nicola Guarino used the famous "red rose" example in his
> > presentation of DOLCE
> > (see http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2006_02_02)
> >
> > As Nicola emphasized at the end of his talk, small examples are really
> > important to convey
> > and discuss important ideas like that of being able to precisely capture
> > the subtle differences
> > on the various meanings of "red" in "red rose".
> >
> > Wouldn't it be great then to be able to annotate the podcast w/ a
> > pointer to an example ontology built (for example)
> > using Swoop from the public URL of DOLCE in a way that includes "back"
> > annotation links to the podcast
> > to establish a 3-way link among
> >
> > (1) a subset of the example ontology that illustrates one of the
> > meanings of "red"
> > (2) a segment of the presentation where Nicola explains that particular
> > meaning
> > (3) the description of that meaning in DOLCE
> >
> > Annotations need to be "first-class" things that can themselves be
> > annotated.
> > In this case, the above annotation is an example of the distinction
> > between descriptions (3) and situations (1) in DOLCE.
> >
> > The mindswappers have shown that doing annotations and referencing to
> > subsets of ontologies is technically doable.
> > One relevant question is whether the tools/mechanisms/infrastructure to
> > do it could be deployed as an on-going service for this forum.
> >
> > -- Nicolas.
> > Peter P. Yim wrote Wed, 01 Feb 2006 06:44:37 -0800:
> >
> > > Thank you very much, Max. This is great!
> > >
> > > See announcement at the Ontolog:WikiHomePage -
> > >http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nidJMZ
> > > (and the ensuing details under the "Events" section.)
> > >
> > > Also, please refer to our discussion at last week's call relating to
> > > this matter -
> > >
>http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2006_01_26#nidJKM
> > >
> > > In particular, there is continuing work to maintain/enhance the
> > > podcast, and we need some volunteers (contact Max for details).
> > >
> > > More interestingly, an initiative that Nicolas Rouquette alluded to
> > > before is now re-surfacing as a potential project for "tagging
> > > multimedia and other Ontolog content for podcast & semantic search."
> > > ... let's discuss this. ... Better still, maybe we can even devote a
> > > technical discussion session for it (Nicolas and Max, you want to
> > > co-organize this?)
> > >
> > > Thanks & regards. =ppy
> > > --
> > > Michael Maximilien wrote Wed, 25 Jan 2006 12:58:23 -0800:
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Hi,
> > >>
> > >> 1) Podcast available on ONTOLOG forum Wiki.
> > >>http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/resource/podcast/ontolog-podcast.xml
> > >>
> > >> 2) Modified Wiki homepage to announce --- feel free to edit, add
> > >> images, or change text
> > >>
> > >> 3) Added all 2005 episodes -- I will gradually add more as time
> permits
> > >>
> > >> 4) Registered podcast with iTunes and Yahoo podcast -- soon you will
> > >> be able to search and subscribe directly from these sites
> > >>
> > >> 5) Tried RSS feed on iTunes and Safari --- works fine
> > >>
> > >> 6) Removed RSS feed from my site
> > >>
> > >> Thanks to Peter Yim for various assistance and making this happen.
> > >> Send me and Peter any feedback or better yet respond to this email.
> > >>
> > >> If you have problem using then let me know. Take care,
> > >>
> > >> E. M. (Max) Maximilien, Ph.D.
> > >> IBM Almaden Research Center
> > >> San Jose, CA USA
> > >> maxim@xxxxxxxxxx
> > >> Homepage: http://maximilien.org
> > >> ...[snip]...
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