Denise, (01)
Taking the architecture "high-road" as you suggest would be indeed a
wise strategy.
However, this would require someone investing enough time & energy to do it.
Are you volunteering to do that? (02)
A shortcut may be to demonstrate what is technologically easy to demonstrate
in this context as a way to collaboratively jumpstart the important
"high-road"
discussion on architecture. A simple technology demonstration may
illustrate
only a small part of this architecture and it might, if misused, mislead
the perspective
on what the "high-road" architectural principles are. This is a risk;
however,
I believe it also provides a point of reference for enlightened
individuals like
you to explain the merits & deficiencies of that example w.r.t. the
"high road"
architecture principles you believe in more easily than if you have to
do the
architecture thinking. (03)
A technology demo/example seems to me a more expedient way to explain
what are the key architecture principles important to the semantic
integration
of diverse kinds of information. Without examples, I'm afraid we could
have a very abstract, dry and boring discussion with lots of hand-waving,
conjecturing, posturing, etc....; i.e., a good recipe for a boring
discussion. (04)
-- Nicolas. (05)
dbedford@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote: (06)
> All,
>
> You need to do the second session before you do the first. This
> challenge is a 'thinking' problem more than it is a technology
> problem. And, it is also an architecture and a workflow issue.
> Having worked on these problems for about 15 years now I can tell you
> that there is no technical solution that doesn't require a supporting
> architecture, careful planning, and an investment of time. To
> integrate structured/semistructured/unstructured information, you need
> a different kind of architecture.
>
> You can succeed big time, though, and gain real productivity and
> access improvements if you take a thoughtful approach.
>
> Best regards,
> Denise
>
>
>
> Best regards,
> Denise
>
>
> -----ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote: -----
>
> To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> From: "Peter P. Yim" <peter.yim@xxxxxxxx>
> Sent by: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: 02/03/2006 03:52PM
> Subject: Tagging Ontolog content [was - Re: [ontolog-forum]
> ONTOLOG forum podcast]
>
> > [Max] the new podcast schema (I think 2.0) which allows you
> > to add some forms of annotations and pointers during the
> > podcast. So for instance you can add different images so
> > that as the podcast plays, the image (we have none for now)
> > that is displayed in iTunes would change.
>
> [ppy] re:image - the speakers' slide(s) would be a natural candidate!
>
> > [Max] We should brainstorm and discuss some more.
> &g ; Nicolas/Peter (others) any suggestions on how to proceed?
> > I am happy to continue via email and then do some live
> > discussion.
>
> [ppy] ... something more concrete: how about organizing a
> two-part technical discussion series,
>
> (a) the first session surveying the relevant technology that's
> "out there" now: ... topic maps, swoop, folksonomy, UIMA ... etc.
> (especially those for unstructured and semistructured content), and
>
> (b) the second session devoted to a discussion on what we want to
> do (with the Ontolog content), and how we could proceed ... with
> this possibly leading up to another Ontolog project.
>
> We can do (a) as early as Feb. 16 or Feb. 23, 2006, if both of
> you (Nicolas and Max) are willing to co-moderate (and, obviously,
> co-organize) it. The challenge would be: Can you pull together
> the real gurus for that in short order? If the answer it yes,
> that would be just great!
>
> Additional volunteers and input from everyone are welcomed.
>
> Cheers. =ppy
> --
>
>
> Michael Maximilien wrote Fri, 3 Feb 2006 11:52:33 -0800:
> >
> > > Max: is podcasting ontolog forum discussions sufficiently
> practical &
> > > reasonable
> > > in terms of resource demands to do on a systematic basis?
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> > > If yes, then this raises a number of interesting
> possibilities that
> > > could help us better "digest our own ontology food"
> >
> > You mean 'dogfooding', I like that :-)
> >
> > > For example, Nicola Guarino used the famous "red rose"
> example in his
> > > presentation of DOLCE
> > > (see
> http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2006_02_02)
> >
> > I just added his talk to the podcast.
> >
> > (Just downloaded it so that I listen to it over the week- nd :-)
> I had
> > to miss most of it...)
> >
> > > Wouldn't it be great then to be able to annotate the podcast w/ a
> > > pointer to an example ontology built (for example)
> > > using Swoop from the public URL of DOLCE in a way that
> includes "back"
> > > annotation links to the podcast
> > > to establish a 3-way link among
> >
> > Yes. This is very interesting indeed.
> >
> > In that same spirit but more from a engineering point of view, I
> would
> > also point the group (I am sure you are aware of this) to the UIMA
> > (http://uima-framework.sourceforge.net/) work and also the new
> podcast
> > schema (I think 2.0) which allows you to add some forms of
> annotations
> > and pointers during the podcast. So for instance you can add
> different
> > images so that as the podcast plays, the image (we have none for
> now)
> &g ; that is displayed in iTunes would change.
> >
> > What you are suggesting is a more generic version of that...
> very cool.
> >
> > > Annotations need to be "first-class" things that can
> themselves be
> > > annotated.
> > > In this case, the above annotation is an example of the
> distinction
> > > between descriptions (3) and situations (1) in DOLCE.
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> > BTW, (you probably know this as well) but here is a pointer to a
> paper
> > by Tom Gruber on folksonomy and ontology where he begins a model
> for
> > representing tagging and essentially making them "first-class".
> >
> >http://tomgruber.org/writing/ontology-of-folksonomy.htm
> >
> > (I believe, in addition to Peter, two or three others may have
> suggested
> > Tom's paper to me---including John Domingue when I met him in A'dam
> > during ICSOC last November)
> >
> > > The mindswappers have shown that doing annotations and
> referencing to
> > > subsets of ontologies is technically doable.
> > > One relevant question is whether the
> tools/mechanisms/infrastructure to
> > > do it could be deployed as an on-going service for this forum.
> >
> > Interesting. It's doable. There are a variety of possibilities,
> > including using/creating services that allow content to be
> > tagged/annotated and then composing/mashing that with the Wiki. It
> > might take some engineering effort but definitely doable...
> >
> > We should brainstorm and discuss some more. Nicolas/Peter
> (others) any
> > suggestions on how to proceed? I am happy to continue via email
> and
> > then do some live discussion.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > E. M. (Max) Maximilien, Ph.D.
> > IBM Almaden Research Center
> > San Jose, C USA
> > maxim@xxxxxxxxxx
> > Homepage: http://maximilien.org
>
>
> > ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote on 02/03/2006
> 11:15:29 AM:
> >
> > > Thanks Peter for the heads-up/reminder.
> > >
> > > Max: is podcasting ontolog forum discussions sufficiently
> practical &
> > > reasonable
> > > in terms of resource demands to do on a systematic basis?
> > >
> > > If yes, then this raises a number of interesting
> possibilities that
> > > could help us better "digest our own ontology food"
> > > with related technology support (e.g., Swoop's annotation
> support &
> > > Annotea server, publicly available ontolgies
> > > w/ sufficiently axiomatized content adequate for reasoning
> analysis --
> > > e.g., SUMO, DOLCE, ...)
> > >
> > > For example, Nicola Guarino used the f mous "red rose"
> example in his
> > > presentation of DOLCE
> > > (see
> http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2006_02_02)
> > >
> > > As Nicola emphasized at the end of his talk, small examples
> are really
> > > important to convey
> > > and discuss important ideas like that of being able to
> precisely capture
> > > the subtle differences
> > > on the various meanings of "red" in "red rose".
> > >
> > > Wouldn't it be great then to be able to annotate the podcast w/ a
> > > pointer to an example ontology built (for example)
> > > using Swoop from the public URL of DOLCE in a way that
> includes "back"
> > > annotation links to the podcast
> > > to establish a 3-way link among
> > >
> > > (1) a subset of the exampl ontology that illustrates one of the
> > > meanings of "red"
> > > (2) a segment of the presentation where Nicola explains that
> particular
> > > meaning
> > > (3) the description of that meaning in DOLCE
> > >
> > > Annotations need to be "first-class" things that can
> themselves be
> > > annotated.
> > > In this case, the above annotation is an example of the
> distinction
> > > between descriptions (3) and situations (1) in DOLCE.
> > >
> > > The mindswappers have shown that doing annotations and
> referencing to
> > > subsets of ontologies is technically doable.
> > > One relevant question is whether the
> tools/mechanisms/infrastructure to
> > > do it could be deployed as an on-going service for this forum.
> > >
> > > -- Nicolas.
>
>
> > > Peter P. Yim wrote Wed, 01 Feb 2006 06:44:37 -08 0:
> > >
> > > > Thank you very much, Max. This is great!
> > > >
> > > > See announcement at the Ontolog:WikiHomePage -
> > > >http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nidJMZ
> > > > (and the ensuing details under the "Events" section.)
> > > >
> > > > Also, please refer to our discussion at last week's call
> relating to
> > > > this matter -
> > > >
> >http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2006_01_26#nidJKM
> > > >
> > > > In particular, there is continuing work to maintain/enhance the
> > > > podcast, and we need some volunteers (contact Max for details).
> > > >
> > > > More inter stingly, an initiative that Nicolas Rouquette
> alluded to
> > > > before is now re-surfacing as a potential project for "tagging
> > > > multimedia and other Ontolog content for podcast & semantic
> search."
> > > > ... let's discuss this. ... Better still, maybe we can even
> devote a
> > > > technical discussion session for it (Nicolas and Max, you
> want to
> > > > co-organize this?)
> > > >
> > > > Thanks & regards. =ppy
> > > > --
>
>
> > > > Michael Maximilien wrote Wed, 25 Jan 2006 12:58:23 -0800:
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >> Hi,
> > > >>
> > > >> 1) Podcast available on ONTOLOG forum Wiki.
> > >
> >>http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/resource/podcast/ontolog-podcast.xml<
> r>> > >>
> > > >> 2) Modified Wiki homepage to announce --- feel free to
> edit, add
> > > >> images, or change text
> > > >>
> > > >> 3) Added all 2005 episodes -- I will gradually add more as
> time
> > permits
> > > >>
> > > >> 4) Registered podcast with iTunes and Yahoo podcast --
> soon you will
> > > >> be able to search and subscribe directly from these sites
> > > >>
> > > >> 5) Tried RSS feed on iTunes and Safari --- works fine
> > > >>
> > > >> 6) Removed RSS feed from my site
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks to Peter Yim for various assistance and making this
> happen.
> > > >> Send me and Peter any feedback or better yet respond to
> this email.
> > > >>
> > > >> If you have problem us ng then let me know. Take care,
> > > >>
> > > >> E. M. (Max) Maximilien, Ph.D.
> > > >> IBM Almaden Research Center
> > > >> San Jose, CA USA
> > > >> maxim@xxxxxxxxxx
> > > >> Homepage: http://maximilien.org
>
> > > >> ...[snip]...
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