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Re: Tagging Ontolog content [was - Re: [ontolog-forum] ONTOLOG forum pod

To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: Nicolas F Rouquette <nicolas.rouquette@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 11:49:10 -0800
Message-id: <43E8F9B6.40902@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Denise,    (01)

Taking the architecture "high-road" as you suggest would be indeed a 
wise strategy.
However, this would require someone investing enough time & energy to do it.
Are you volunteering to do that?    (02)

A shortcut may be to demonstrate what is technologically easy to demonstrate
in this context as a way to collaboratively jumpstart the important 
"high-road"
discussion on  architecture. A simple technology demonstration may 
illustrate
only a small part of this architecture and it might, if misused, mislead 
the perspective
on what the "high-road" architectural principles are. This is a risk; 
however,
I believe it also provides a point of reference for enlightened 
individuals like
you to explain the merits & deficiencies of that example w.r.t. the 
"high road"
architecture principles you believe in more easily than if you have to 
do the
architecture thinking.    (03)

A technology demo/example seems to me a more expedient way to explain
what are the key architecture principles important to the semantic 
integration
of diverse kinds of information. Without  examples, I'm afraid we could
have a very abstract, dry and boring discussion with lots of hand-waving,
conjecturing, posturing, etc....; i.e., a good recipe for a boring 
discussion.    (04)

-- Nicolas.    (05)

dbedford@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:    (06)

> All,
>
> You need to do the second session before you do the first.  This 
> challenge is a 'thinking' problem more than it is a technology 
> problem.  And, it is also an architecture and a workflow issue.  
> Having worked on these problems for about 15 years now I can tell you 
> that there is no technical solution that doesn't require a supporting 
> architecture, careful planning, and an investment of time.  To 
> integrate structured/semistructured/unstructured information, you need 
> a different kind of architecture. 
>
> You can succeed big time, though, and gain real productivity and 
> access improvements if you take a thoughtful approach. 
>
> Best regards,
> Denise
>
>
>
> Best regards,
> Denise
>
>
> -----ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote: -----
>
>     To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>     From: "Peter P. Yim" <peter.yim@xxxxxxxx>
>     Sent by: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>     Date: 02/03/2006 03:52PM
>     Subject: Tagging Ontolog content [was - Re: [ontolog-forum]
>     ONTOLOG forum podcast]
>
>     > [Max] the new podcast schema (I think 2.0) which allows you
>     > to add some forms of annotations and pointers during the
>     > podcast.  So for instance you can add different images so
>     > that as the podcast plays, the image (we have none for now)
>     > that is displayed in iTunes would change.
>
>     [ppy] re:image - the speakers' slide(s) would be a natural candidate!
>
>     > [Max] We should brainstorm and discuss some more.
>     &g ; Nicolas/Peter (others) any suggestions on how to proceed?
>     > I am happy to continue via email and then do some live
>     > discussion.
>
>     [ppy] ... something more concrete: how about organizing a
>     two-part technical discussion series,
>
>     (a) the first session surveying the relevant technology that's
>     "out there" now: ... topic maps, swoop, folksonomy, UIMA ... etc.
>     (especially those for unstructured and semistructured content), and
>
>     (b) the second session devoted to a discussion on what we want to
>     do (with the Ontolog content), and how we could proceed ... with
>     this possibly leading up to another Ontolog project.
>
>     We can do (a) as early as Feb. 16 or Feb. 23, 2006, if both of
>     you (Nicolas and Max) are willing to co-moderate (and, obviously,
>     co-organize) it. The challenge would be: Can you pull together
>     the real gurus for that in short order? If the answer it yes,
>     that would be just great!
>
>     Additional volunteers and input from everyone are welcomed.
>
>     Cheers.  =ppy
>     --
>
>
>     Michael Maximilien wrote Fri, 3 Feb 2006 11:52:33 -0800:
>     >
>     >  > Max: is podcasting ontolog forum discussions sufficiently
>     practical &
>     >  > reasonable
>     >  > in terms of resource demands to do on a systematic basis?
>     >
>     > Yes.
>     >  
>     >  > If yes, then this raises a number of interesting
>     possibilities that
>     >  > could help us better "digest our own ontology food"
>     >
>     > You mean 'dogfooding', I like that :-)
>     >  
>     >  > For example, Nicola Guarino used the famous "red rose"
>     example in his
>     >  > presentation of DOLCE
>     >  > (see
>     http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2006_02_02)
>     >
>     > I just added his talk to the podcast.  
>     >
>     > (Just downloaded it so that I listen to it over the week- nd :-)
>      I had
>     > to miss most of it...)
>     >  
>     >  > Wouldn't it be great then to be able to annotate the podcast w/ a
>     >  > pointer to an example ontology built (for example)
>     >  > using Swoop from the public URL of DOLCE in a way that
>     includes "back"
>     >  > annotation links to the podcast
>     >  > to establish a 3-way link among
>     >
>     > Yes.  This is very interesting indeed.
>     >
>     > In that same spirit but more from a engineering point of view, I
>     would
>     > also point the group (I am sure you are aware of this) to the UIMA
>     > (http://uima-framework.sourceforge.net/) work and also the new
>     podcast
>     > schema (I think 2.0) which allows you to add some forms of
>     annotations
>     > and pointers during the podcast.  So for instance you can add
>     different
>     > images so that as the podcast plays, the image (we have none for
>     now)
>     &g ; that is displayed in iTunes would change.  
>     >
>     > What you are suggesting is a more generic version of that...
>      very cool.
>     >  
>     >  > Annotations need to be "first-class" things that can
>     themselves be
>     >  > annotated.
>     >  > In this case, the above annotation is an example of the
>     distinction
>     >  > between descriptions (3) and situations (1) in DOLCE.
>     >
>     > Yes.  
>     >
>     > BTW, (you probably know this as well) but here is a pointer to a
>     paper
>     > by Tom Gruber on folksonomy and ontology where he begins a model
>     for
>     > representing tagging and essentially making them "first-class".
>     >
>     >http://tomgruber.org/writing/ontology-of-folksonomy.htm
>     >
>     > (I believe, in addition to Peter, two or three others may have
>     suggested
>     > Tom's paper to me---including John Domingue when I met him in A'dam
>     > during ICSOC last November)
>     >  
>     >  > The mindswappers have shown that doing annotations and
>     referencing to
>     >  > subsets of ontologies is technically doable.
>     >  > One relevant question is whether the
>     tools/mechanisms/infrastructure to
>     >  > do it could be deployed as an on-going service for this forum.
>     >
>     > Interesting.  It's doable.  There are a variety of possibilities,
>     > including using/creating services that allow content to be
>     > tagged/annotated and then composing/mashing that with the Wiki.  It
>     > might take some engineering effort but definitely doable...
>     >
>     > We should brainstorm and discuss some more.  Nicolas/Peter
>     (others) any
>     > suggestions on how to proceed?  I am happy to continue via email
>     and
>     > then do some live discussion.
>     >
>     > Best,
>     >
>     > E. M. (Max) Maximilien, Ph.D.
>     > IBM Almaden Research Center
>     > San Jose, C USA
>     > maxim@xxxxxxxxxx
>     > Homepage: http://maximilien.org
>
>
>     > ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote on 02/03/2006
>     11:15:29 AM:
>     >
>     >  > Thanks Peter for the heads-up/reminder.
>     >  >
>     >  > Max: is podcasting ontolog forum discussions sufficiently
>     practical &
>     >  > reasonable
>     >  > in terms of resource demands to do on a systematic basis?
>     >  >
>     >  > If yes, then this raises a number of interesting
>     possibilities that
>     >  > could help us better "digest our own ontology food"
>     >  > with related technology support (e.g., Swoop's annotation
>     support &
>     >  > Annotea server, publicly available ontolgies
>     >  > w/ sufficiently axiomatized content adequate for reasoning
>     analysis --
>     >  > e.g., SUMO, DOLCE, ...)
>     >  >
>     >  > For example, Nicola Guarino used the f mous "red rose"
>     example in his
>     >  > presentation of DOLCE
>     >  > (see
>     http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2006_02_02)
>     >  >
>     >  > As Nicola emphasized at the end of his talk, small examples
>     are really
>     >  > important to convey
>     >  > and discuss important ideas like that of being able to
>     precisely capture
>     >  > the subtle differences
>     >  > on the various meanings of "red" in "red rose".
>     >  >
>     >  > Wouldn't it be great then to be able to annotate the podcast w/ a
>     >  > pointer to an example ontology built (for example)
>     >  > using Swoop from the public URL of DOLCE in a way that
>     includes "back"
>     >  > annotation links to the podcast
>     >  > to establish a 3-way link among
>     >  >
>     >  > (1) a subset of the exampl ontology that illustrates one of the
>     >  > meanings of "red"
>     >  > (2) a segment of the presentation where Nicola explains that
>     particular
>     >  > meaning
>     >  > (3) the description of that meaning in DOLCE
>     >  >
>     >  > Annotations need to be "first-class" things that can
>     themselves be
>     >  > annotated.
>     >  > In this case, the above annotation is an example of the
>     distinction
>     >  > between descriptions (3) and situations (1) in DOLCE.
>     >  >
>     >  > The mindswappers have shown that doing annotations and
>     referencing to
>     >  > subsets of ontologies is technically doable.
>     >  > One relevant question is whether the
>     tools/mechanisms/infrastructure to
>     >  > do it could be deployed as an on-going service for this forum.
>     >  >
>     >  > -- Nicolas.
>
>
>     >  > Peter P. Yim wrote Wed, 01 Feb 2006 06:44:37 -08 0:
>     >  >
>     >  > > Thank you very much, Max. This is great!
>     >  > >
>     >  > > See announcement at the Ontolog:WikiHomePage -
>     >  > >http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nidJMZ
>     >  > > (and the ensuing details under the "Events" section.)
>     >  > >
>     >  > > Also, please refer to our discussion at last week's call
>     relating to
>     >  > > this matter -
>     >  > >
>     >http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2006_01_26#nidJKM
>     >  > >
>     >  > > In particular, there is continuing work to maintain/enhance the
>     >  > > podcast, and we need some volunteers (contact Max for details).
>     >  > >
>     >  > > More inter stingly, an initiative that Nicolas Rouquette
>     alluded to
>     >  > > before is now re-surfacing as a potential project for "tagging
>     >  > > multimedia and other Ontolog content for podcast & semantic
>     search."
>     >  > > ... let's discuss this. ... Better still, maybe we can even
>     devote a
>     >  > > technical discussion session for it (Nicolas and Max, you
>     want to
>     >  > > co-organize this?)
>     >  > >
>     >  > > Thanks & regards.  =ppy
>     >  > > --
>
>
>     >  > > Michael Maximilien wrote Wed, 25 Jan 2006 12:58:23 -0800:
>     >  > >
>     >  > >>
>     >  > >> Hi,
>     >  > >>
>     >  > >> 1) Podcast available on ONTOLOG forum Wiki.
>     >  >
>     >>http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/resource/podcast/ontolog-podcast.xml<
>     r>>  > >>
>     >  > >> 2) Modified Wiki homepage to announce --- feel free to
>     edit, add
>     >  > >> images, or change text
>     >  > >>
>     >  > >> 3) Added all 2005 episodes -- I will gradually add more as
>     time
>     > permits
>     >  > >>
>     >  > >> 4) Registered podcast with iTunes and Yahoo podcast --
>     soon you will
>     >  > >> be able to search and subscribe directly from these sites
>     >  > >>
>     >  > >> 5) Tried RSS feed on iTunes and Safari --- works fine
>     >  > >>
>     >  > >> 6) Removed RSS feed from my site
>     >  > >>
>     >  > >> Thanks to Peter Yim for various assistance and making this
>     happen.  
>     >  > >> Send me and Peter any feedback or better yet respond to
>     this email.
>     >  > >>
>     >  > >> If you have problem us ng then let me know.  Take care,
>     >  > >>
>     >  > >> E. M. (Max) Maximilien, Ph.D.
>     >  > >> IBM Almaden Research Center
>     >  > >> San Jose, CA USA
>     >  > >> maxim@xxxxxxxxxx
>     >  > >> Homepage: http://maximilien.org
>
>     >  > >> ...[snip]...
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>    (07)

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