Hi Deborah,
The JPG file was very fuzzy. Is the intent
to show relationships (Sequencing or Dependencies) among and between IFC, BOMA,
GSA, Fire Station Locations, etc.??
If so, the attached GIF file shows Kimon’s
representation from a Slide presentation 2 weeks ago at the Los Angeles
Municipal Green Building Conference at the Gas Company’s Energy Research
Center.
Cheers,
Bob
From:
bsp-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bsp-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Deborah MacPherson
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 11:59
AM
To: BSP
Forum
Subject: Re: [bsp-forum] Fwd: Re:
BIM>GIS
Hi Bob and all -
I've updated the New Orleans
template with the actual fire station spec table of contents provided by Finith
Jergenson of Design Atlantic. When I already had an item listed it is indicated
"YES" in red in a new column "Fire Station Actual".
Many of the actual entries are more specific than what I had (for example I had
Wood Doors 08 14 00, they had Flush Wood Doors 08 14 XX). The quickest way to
see this is specific numbers rather than zeros at the end of the section number.
These are marked as grey across the row with an orange square for YES. Then
greem rows were inserted to indicate Vancouver
building codes. A jpg is attached to see everything at once.
Of course its $320 to access their manuals so this exercise may be based on
IBC just to track a few building elements and performance requirements
all the way through. In other words, many items, starting with the actual fire
station items need to be looked up and assigned.
A next step could be almost to work backwards, taking examples like the
criteria Michelle sent earlier to see - are valves listed? What about phones?
In other words is there space for the likely, or typical, local jurisdiction
and emergency response requirements "in" these sample templates?
Likewise I'm very curious to learn more from John Graham and what they need in
terms of large simulations and what they would want to bring in or carry over
from BIM objects.
I have a survey of the nuts and bolts of BIM that can be whittled down to post
later to explain my understanding of IFD, MVD etc. Mainly, because of the
Consensus Team and Model Implementation Guide Team I serve on for NBIMS, I
wanted a clearer understanding of who was doing what. NIBS and BuildingSmart
are responsible for some tasks, Construction Specifications Institute (CSI) for
others etc.
This code template exercise is like an MVD for emergency response. There will
be many many many MVDs, for example the GSA could have an MVD now like they
used to only have a Federal Guide Specification to define their needs for all
projects. In theory and hopefully there will eventually be only one IFD
Industry Foundation Dictionary so everyone has the same definitions for what
the words mean. "Flat" for example has a lot of very precise
definitions - paint, concrete finishing and so on.
I talked to Ed Barkmeyer at NIST at the summit that its like the AEC industry
is doing everything out of order because we do not have a controlled vocabulary
yet. He remarked that when we do that will be our main ontology. So hopefully
this can be guided on critical points pertaining to emergency response and the
building documentation turn over by the ontology Michelle Raymond already has
created and whatever lessons can be learned from the templates.
Deborah
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 1:26 PM, Bob Smith
<bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Deborah, All:
Your elements (Snippets) of a SHOULD BE nature makes a lot of sense,
especially if we can demonstrate the value in a BIMStorm exercise which
concentrates upon a semantic dozen or so of elements for a Fire Department
audience.
So far, my email system is working but I have not received any meeting time
preferences from anyone.
Cheers,
Bob
>Part of what I'm wrestling with now is which information is in the
>architects documents. When the SMARTcodes come online they will help
>some but here is a stab at the snippets:
>
>location of gas shutoff - mechanical model elements, gas shutoff
>type (should be) specified in
>
>the interior walls that are firewalls - the BIM walls are objects
>with properties that say they are a firewall but the good old
>fashioned way may also be useful with partition sections and plans
>with labeled types. We often use UL assemblies, I wish for
>assemblies to be capturable as a property without telling the BIM
>this.
>
>existence of hazardous roof construction features (such as steel
>bar joists or tensioned concrete) - structural drawings are lines
>and dots and values - the locations and dimensions of the beams are
>in the architects portion. But first, I would look at the spec table
>of contents to see whether 05 30 00 STEEL JOISTS, or 03 38 00 POST
>TENSIONED CONCRETE were included in the project at all, you wouldn't
>have both. Also, I am unclear why either is a hazard - because steel
>joists would fall or melt and the tensioning cables would face a
>problem?
>
>occurrence of an impending over temperature condition (IOT)
>condition within the elevator controllers - combination of building
>control Division 25 Automated Integration and 14 Conveyance Systems.
>Elevator consultants have a bad habit of dividing work amongst
>separate contractors, I noticed in the one and only BCS spec I have
>reviewed they require their conduit, power supply, sensors etc to be
>SEPARATED from the other MEP systems. This would probably help alot
>in the long run to always have BCS able to literally be run and show
>up separate from the other systems.
>
>phone number for the building engineer - he usually has an office
>with a specific location that could make that phone ring, also the
>fire control room.....
>
>NFPA 704 code for the hazardous material located in a specific space
>- the hazardous materials are more in the owner's realm. The BIM for
>design and construction would only reflect such a purpose if special
>enclosure or ventilation was needed, and even then may not be
>obvious.
>
>In trying to develop the stacks Michelle and I discussed, these
>could be 10 "dimensions" traced all the way through the building
>materials, related codes, then help show an example of what the
>owner and local jurisdictions need brought forward and highlighted
>out from all the records when the building turns over.
>
>Deborah
>
>On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 2:05 AM, Michelle Raymond
><<mailto:michellearaymond@xxxxxxxxx>michellearaymond@xxxxxxxxx>
>wrote:
>
>All,
>
>BIM>GIS information needed...
>
>Monday morning I am meeting with a few people at NIST who are looking
>into the Industry Foundation Classes (IFC) and Building Information
>Model (BIM) as a source of at least part of the common vocabulary and
>machine processable information structures needed for fast extraction
>and presentation of pertinent data to emergency responders. An
>example of how IFC / BIM data can be translated into slices of
>2D-floor plan data and graphics would be VERY useful.
>
>We intend to discuss the 2D (yes we still need 2D views) data and
>drawing problem, extraction and classification assignment methods for
>pertinent data, rule based systems for filtering and mapping data,
>multi-source data input aggregation, and data exchange languages,
>policies and protocols. Obviously, this won't all be covered Monday
>morning. So we'll continue the discussion on Tuesday afternoon.
>
>Any examples, insight or good references on extraction of the specific
>data defined as "needed by the emergency responders" that is
contained
>in the BIM would be a HUGE help. The needed BIM data is likely to
>cross the Industry Foundation Classes (IFC), Model View Definition
>(MVD), Information Delivery Manual (IDM) and other aspects of the BIM
>with which I don't yet have even a nodding acquaintance.
>
>Here is a snippet of the variety of types of information needed:
>location of gas shutoff, the interior walls that are firewalls,
>existence of hazardous roof construction features (such as steel bar
>joists or tensioned concrete), occurrence of an impending over
>temperature condition (IOT) condition within the elevator controllers,
>phone number for the building engineer, NFPA 704 code for the
>hazardous material located in a specific space, ...
>
>I don't want to do more than frame the approach to constructing the
>ontology for the "support of emergency management view into the
BIM"
>until things are less fuzzy about which pieces of data are where in
>the BIM and how the data can be extracted.
>
>Oh, and if you have a favorite BIM applications or tools, usable in
>the AFTER construction and IN the operational facility phase,
>particularly for data extraction, I'd love to know what they are.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Michelle
>
>
>
>
>
>
>On 5/4/08, Peter Yim <<mailto:peter.yim@xxxxxxxx>peter.yim@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> Deborah (& Michelle),
>>
>> Thank you for the message ... by the way, did you (or Michelle)
have a
>> chance to chat with either Gary Berg-Corss or Todd Schneider
during
>> the Ontology Summit F2F last week. They are both (Mike Dean too)
>> involved in an activity under the auspices of the "Spatial
Ontology
>> Community of Practice (SOCoP)" which could have relevance,
or a
>> potential collaborator, in this work you are describing here -
see:
>>
>><http://colab.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?SOCoP>http://colab.cim3.net/cgi-bin
/wiki.pl?SOCoP
>>
>> ... If not (yet), at least, know that you/we could readily
connect up
>> with them when the time is ripe to do so.
>>
>> Regards. =ppy
>> --
>>
>>
>> On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 5:26 PM, Deborah MacPherson
>><<mailto:debmacp@xxxxxxxxx>debmacp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> > Hi Rex, Bob, Michelle, Toby, Peter -
>> >
>> > Bonnie DeVarco on the Accuracy&Aesthetics board has
recently put me
>> > re-in-touch with John Graham at SDSU. A few years ago
he did a
>>***REALLY***
>> > terrific representation of the tsumami for an exhibition
with the maps
of
>> > science. He is interested in BIM>GIS connections
especially in
>>the context
>> > of emergency response and would like to know more.
His message is
copied
>> > below for technical details.
>> >
>> > "We do a lot of work with the first responder
community so I am very
>> > interested in what your group is doing in that regard. I am
currently
>> > hosting the FlightGear Scenery Database which includes
>>scenegraph models of
>> > many buildings and airfields. The database currently
contains 762
models
>> > placed in the scenery as 994055 seperate objects. We are
developing a
WCS
>> > "Web Coverage Service" to stream these models
into flightgear on
>>the fly :)
>> > These models are stored in a Postgres database with PostGIS
spatial
data
>> > extensions so we have the ability to do some pretty fancy
web
services. I
>> > would love to join your call let me know the details."
>> >
>> > Also, last week, Finith Jergenson of Design Atlantic who landed
the
fire
>> > stations at last 2 BIMstorms has sent some materials I've
been
pondering
>> > over (sent Michelle a ppt/pdf). It is sounding more
and more like
there
>> > could really be something to work with here.
>> >
>> >
>> > Deborah
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > *************************************************
>> > Deborah L. MacPherson
>> > Projects Director, Accuracy&Aesthetics
> > > Specifier, WDG Architecture PLLC
>> >
>> > The content of this email may contain private
>> > and confidential information. Do not forward,
>> > copy, share, or otherwise distribute without
>> > explicit written permission from all
>> > correspondents.
>> >
>> > **************************************************
>>
>
>
>
>
>--
>
>*************************************************
>Deborah L. MacPherson
>Projects Director, Accuracy&Aesthetics
>Specifier, WDG Architecture PLLC
>
>The content of this email may contain private
>and confidential information. Do not forward,
>copy, share, or otherwise distribute without
>explicit written permission from all
>correspondents.
>
>**************************************************
--
Rex Brooks
President, CEO
Starbourne Communications Design
GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
Berkeley, CA
94702
Tel: 510-898-0670
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