OntologyBasedStandards miniseries session-5 - Thu 2013-10-17    (3YQI)

Session Co-chairs: Dr. Gary Berg-Cross (SOCoP) & Dr. Tara Athan (Athan Services) ... intro slides    (3YQJ)

Topic: Developing Ontologies for Geospatial Standards: Progress and Issues    (3YQK)

Panelists / Briefings:    (3YQL)

Archives:    (3Z8S)

Conference Call Details:    (3YQM)

Attendees:    (3YRJ)

Abstract:    (3Z91)

Developing Ontologies for Geospatial Standards: Progress and Issues - overview slides    (3Z92)

As with the recent session-4 (The Case for a "Quantities and Units of Measure" Ontology Standard ) this is a continuation of the OntologyBasedStandards mini-series that was started in late 2012 as a joint venture of OASIS, OMG, various ISO working groups, IAOA, OOR  and ONTOLOG. This session, is part of a program of 8 topics which are planned to be held over the remaining time in 2013, and partly in 2014.    (3Z93)

We are over 10 years from Smith and Mark’s Geographical Categories: An Ontological Investigation – one of top 10 cited articles in the geospatial (GS) field. Many technical geospatial standards exist and there is increasing intersection of the GS technical community and the ontological and semantic technology communities. Still many geospatial data & web feature services have standardized terms but lack adequate semantics. Some of the concepts in need of improved semantics, such as quantity and observation, are not specific to the GS domain. This session explores some efforts to reduce the ambiguities in GS definitions, as well as the interrelationships of concepts across GS and related domains. The session builds on work coming out of standards bodies like the Open Geospatial Consortium (OGC), but also looks to progress on ontologies such as started on the W3C Geospatial Incubator Group which defined seven categories of Geospatial Ontologies:    (3Z94)

Notable also was the benchmark survey of the GS ontology landscape (= Geospatial Ontology Trade Study) conducted in 2007 which reviewed spatial conceptualization in foundational and upper level ontologies but also concepts in domain and commercial standards (e.g. the Geography Markup Language GML) as well as spatial ontologies that are embedded in other ontologies such as SWEET. Several of the GS ontologies discussed in the trade study have been made available in the SOCoP OOR as part of NSF’s funding of the SOCoP INTEROP effort.    (3Z9C)

Another notable development has been the formalization of GeoSPARQL which was presented previously in the SOCoP Virtual Workshop on Semantics in Geospatial and Other Architectures: Design and Implementation (2013-05-07).    (3Z9D)

For our session today, we have invited presentations by people involved in the geospatial arena and with standards. Following a very brief overview, they will each present for about 20 minutes on their areas of work and interest. This will be followed by Q & A and an open discussion of issues.    (3Z9E)

For more detail on the mini-series please also refer to details on the OntologyBasedStandards mini-series homepage.    (3Z9F)

Briefings:    (3Z9G)

Abstract: ... This talk provides information about Open Geospatial Consortium (OGC) activities related to the Semantic Web and gaps. It will highlight work done by OGC subcommittees, working groups and projects of the Interoperability Program. All these activities are using technologies that will allow better capturing and sharing rich semantics in OGC Geospatial standards. The talk will provide details about GeoSPARQL and OGC URIs. Finally, it will provide some information about ideas for future work, including UML to OWL activities.    (3Z9R)

Abstract: ... We have developed OWL ontologies for the ISO/OGC model for Observations, and for other standard geographic information schemas (geometry, time, metadata) upon which it depends. Translation from the original UML to OWL follows the ISO 19150-2 rules. The ontologies have been prepared standalone, to respect the ‘upper ontology’ implied by the ISO UML profile and ISO General Feature Model, and thus avoid introducing external bias. Mapping to other ontologies, such as the SSN ontology, can be done subsequently in RDFS and OWL axioms, and maintained as linksets separate from the structure model. A key issue is whether the OWL representation should exactly reproduce the frame-based UML model from the standard, or be an open-world OWL representation of some underlying model. This affects property scoping and object property restrictions. The latter choice requires more interpretation during conversion. Two incompatible ontologies have been developed through following both approaches.    (3Z9U)

The ISO-based ontology and SSN ontology are almost equally expressive. However, in the SSN ontology alignment with DOLCE is achieved by putting the Observation class in the DUL:SocialObject hierarchy, whereas in O&M it is conceived of as an ‘Event’.    (3Z9V)

Abstract: ... The W3C Semantic Sensor Network Incubator Group published its final report in 2011. One of two main objectives of the group was "to develop of an ontology to describe sensors and sensor networks," and this objective was met with the ontology presented in the final report, with online documentation at the link below. The ontology is domain independent and comprehensive, merging sensor-focused, observation-focused and system-focused views. It is intended to be used in conjunction with domain-specific ontologies as well as ontologies of measurement, time, location and mobility. It is aligned with the DOLCE Ultra Lite upper ontology, and is backward-compatible with the OGC's Sensor Web Enablement (SWE) standard.    (3Z9X)

Abstract: ... The terms specified in currently available geospatial standards (and spatial standards in general) largely lack full semantic formalizations. However, subtle differences abound in the spatial domain, thus it is especially important to formally state what the concepts and relations mean.    (3ZA0)

In this talk, I will outline how spatial standards can be improved by grounding terms in first-order axiomatizations. While I will use examples from hydro ontology, much of the work generalizes to other geospatial domains and beyond, as demonstrated by ongoing work in anatomy.    (3ZA1)

Agenda:    (3ZA2)

OntologyBasedStandards Mini-series Panel Session-05    (3ZA3)

Session Format: this is a virtual session conducted over an augmented conference call    (3ZA4)

Proceedings:    (3ZA9)

Please refer to the above    (3ZAA)

IM Chat Transcript captured during the session:    (3ZAB)

 see raw transcript here.    (3ZAC)
 (for better clarity, the version below is a re-organized and lightly edited chat-transcript.)
 Participants are welcome to make light edits to their own contributions as they see fit.    (3ZAD)
 -- begin in-session chat-transcript --    (3ZAE)
	------
	Chat transcript from room: ontolog_20131017
	2013-10-17 GMT-08:00 [PDT]
	------    (3ZKM)
	[9:13] PeterYim: Welcome to the    (3ZKN)
	 = OntologyBasedStandards mini-series session-5 - Thu 2013-10-17 =    (3ZKO)
	Session Co-chair: Dr. GaryBergCross (SOCoP) & Dr. TaraAthan (Athan Services)    (3ZKP)
	Topic: Developing Ontologies for Geospatial Standards: Progress and Issues    (3ZKQ)
	Panelists / Briefings:    (3ZKR)
	* Dr. LuisBermudez (OGC) - "Geospatial Standards and the Semantic Web"
	* Dr. SimonCox (CSIRO, Australia) - "Observations and Measurements (O&M)"
	* Dr. CoryHenson (Kno.e.sis) "W3C Semantic Sensor Network (SSN) Ontologies" (presented by Dr. TaraAthan)
	* Dr. TorstenHahmann (U of Toronto) - "Driving the next generation of spatial standards - examples from hydro ontology"    (3ZKS)
	Logistics:    (3ZKT)
	* Refer to details on session page at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2013_10_17    (3ZKU)
	* (if you haven't already done so) please click on "settings" (top center) and morph from "anonymous" to your RealName    (3ZKV)
	* Mute control: *7 to un-mute ... *6 to mute    (3ZKW)
	* Can't find Skype Dial pad?
	** for Windows Skype users: Can't find Skype Dial pad? ... it's under the "Call" dropdown menu as "Show Dial pad"
	** for Linux Skype users: please stay with (or downgrade to) Skype version 2.x for now 
	   (as a Dial pad seems to be missing on Linux-based Skype v4.x for skype-calls.)    (3ZKX)
	Attendees: AleksandraSojic, AlexShkotin, AmandaVizedom, BobbinTeegarden, BruceSimons, 
	CeciliaDiSciascio, DeborahMacPherson, ElizabethFlorescu, FranLightsom, FrancescaQuattri, 
	GaryBergCross, GenZou, HaroldBoley, JoelBender, JoshLieberman, LamarHenderson, LuisBermudez, 
	MichaelGruninger, MikeBennett, MikeDean, NelcyPina, NikkiaAnderson, OlaAhlqvist, OliverKutz, 
	PeterYim, RamSriram, RichardMartin, SeanBarker, SimonCox, TaraAthan, ToddPehle, TorstenHahmann    (3ZKY)
	 == Proceedings ==    (3ZKZ)
	[8:58] anonymous morphed into OlaAhlqvist    (3ZL0)
	[9:19] anonymous morphed into BruceSimons    (3ZL1)
	[9:19] PeterYim: There has been some issues with skype connections (variously reported by people 
	from different locations.) Therefore, if you are using skype and the connection to "joinconference" 
	is not holding up, try using (your favorite POTS or VoIP line, etc.) either your phone, skype-out or 
	google-voice and call the US dial-in number: +1 (206) 402-0100 ... when prompted enter Conference ID: 141184#    (3ZL2)
	[9:20] PeterYim: Note also, that you may connect to (the skypeID) "joinconference" whether or not it 
	indicates that it is online (i.e. even if it says it is "offline," you should still be able to connect to it.)    (3ZL3)
	[9:20] PeterYim: (for phone dial-in) ... some local numbers may be available (in the US, Australia, 
	Canada & UK) - see: http://instantteleseminar.com/Local/    (3ZL4)
	[9:22] GaryBergCross: Hello all.    (3ZL5)
	[9:26] anonymous morphed into LuisBermudez    (3ZL6)
	[9:27] LuisBermudez: Hi everyone    (3ZL7)
	[9:30] SimonCox: Is my chat coming through now?    (3ZL8)
	[9:31] AmandaVizedom: @SimonCox - Yes    (3ZL9)
	[9:30] anonymous morphed into TorstenHahmann    (3ZLA)
	[9:34] anonymous1 morphed into RamSriram    (3ZLB)
	[9:34] anonymous2 morphed into BobbinTeegarden    (3ZLC)
	[9:34] anonymous1 morphed into FrancescaQuattri    (3ZLD)
	[9:36] anonymous morphed into GenZou    (3ZLE)
	[9:37] anonymous1 morphed into CeciliaDiSciascio    (3ZLF)
	[9:37] AlexShkotin: We may download slides and follow without hooper:-)    (3ZLG)
	[9:38] anonymous morphed into ToddPehle    (3ZLH)
	[9:41] SimonCox: @PeterYim - I have vnc shared screen now OK    (3ZLI)
	[9:42] PeterYim: great ... thanks, Simon    (3ZLJ)
	[9:45] RichardMartin: Peter - how do I stop the chat window from resetting to the top all the time?    (3ZLK)
	[9:47] PeterYim: @RichardMartin - not sure I understand you? See if there is anything in "Settings" 
	(top center of window) helps    (3ZLL)
	[9:40] PeterYim: == GaryBergCross & TaraAthan started the session ... please bring up slides under: 
	http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2013_10_17#nid3Z8V    (3ZLM)
	[9:44] anonymous morphed into DeborahMacPherson    (3ZLN)
	[9:47] AmandaVizedom: re: slide 5 (Ontology in Geospatial Topics) -- that kind of domain category 
	work is a great resource and a head-start if well-accepted. It is something quite different, 
	however, to bring *formal* ontologies into a field of practice, and different again to bring in 
	semantic technologies to make use of them. How new would you say *those* activities are to the domain?    (3ZLO)
	[9:51] GaryBergCross: @Amanda Good point bring *formal* ontologies into a field of practice, and 
	different again to bring in semantic technologies to make use of them and we'll hear about some of 
	this in the talks starting with Luis....    (3ZLP)
	[9:47] anonymous morphed into NelcyPina    (3ZLQ)
	[9:48] PeterYim: == LuisBermudez presenting ...    (3ZLR)
	[9:52] anonymous morphed into RichardMartin    (3ZLS)
	[10:05] GaryBergCross: I should have mentioned that we save Questions to the end of all of the presentations.    (3ZLT)
	[10:11] DeborahMacPherson: Hi Luiz - can you please briefly discuss Geo4NIEM? Thanks    (3ZLU)
	[10:18] LuisBermudez: @Deborah, good point geo4niem information is here: 
	http://www.opengeospatial.org/projects/initiatives/geo4niem    (3ZLV)
	[10:10] PeterYim: == SimonCox presenting ...    (3ZLW)
	[10:14] GaryBergCross: If we hold to the current schedule we will have 20 minutes for Q&A 2:10-2:30.    (3ZLX)
	[10:21] GaryBergCross: @simon Wow! UML seems quite limiting to understand all the relations you are describing.    (3ZLY)
	--[10:22] HaroldBoley: Voice connection broken!    (3ZLZ)
	--[10:22] TaraAthan: Simon, we can't hear you.    (3ZM0)
	--[10:22] HaroldBoley: Simon?    (3ZM1)
	--[10:22] PeterYim: we lost Simon ... probably lost his connection ... hope he dials back in    (3ZM2)
	--[10:23] HaroldBoley: How would he Know, not expecting feedback from the audience at this point?    (3ZM3)
	--[10:24] BruceSimons: [responding to MichaelGruninger's question if anyone sees SimonCox on skype] I do    (3ZM4)
	--[10:24] FrancescaQuattri: great    (3ZM5)
	--[10:24] BruceSimons: I have tried skyping him    (3ZM6)
	--[10:25] HaroldBoley: Also: Future speakers should be encouraged to keep their cell phones on.    (3ZM7)
	--[10:25] SimonCox: I'm back now    (3ZM8)
	--[10:27] PeterYim: @BruceSimons @SimonCox - great, thank you!    (3ZM9)
	--[10:26] HaroldBoley: we were at the ISO 19150-2 (2015?) slide (slide #7)    (3ZMA)
	[10:24] anonymous morphed into JoshLieberman    (3ZMB)
	[10:30] anonymous morphed into NikkiaAnderson    (3ZMC)
	[10:27] LuisBermudez: About the OGC GeoSemantics WG: it is chaired by Josh Lieberman and SimonCox. 
	It meets regularly at the OGC TC meetings. They also run a semantic experiment 7 years ago: 
	http://www.opengeospatial.org/projects/initiatives/gswie    (3ZMD)
	[10:32] AmandaVizedom: @SimonCox - thank you for discussing how you have been managing the UML/OWL 
	mismatch when transforming. The approach of creating business/conceptual models in UML and then 
	generating OWL (automatically, manually, or some of each) has become increasingly common, but these 
	issues are still very much live.    (3ZME)
	[10:39] JoshLieberman: The conception of observation as social is fascinating. May explain the 
	widespread (mis-)apprehension that scientific truth depends on who you believe.    (3ZMF)
	[10:40] GaryBergCross: @simon Thanks! Great stuff... Enjoy a morning coffee.    (3ZMG)
	[10:40] PeterYim: == excerpt on CoryHenson's SSN ontology work (presented by TaraAthan) ...    (3ZMH)
	[10:41] SimonCox: [responding to TaraAthan's remark that CoryHenderson cannot be with us today, and 
	therefore she is presenting Cory's work] I'm hoping Cory will be at 6th SSN workshop in Sydney next 
	week, to discuss the overlaps and tensions!    (3ZMI)
	[10:41] SimonCox: Maybe he's travelling now ...    (3ZMJ)
	[10:42] GaryBergCross: @Simon No, I think that he is just back from some travel but tied up at this time slot.    (3ZMK)
	[10:43] SimonCox: In OGC/ISO we distinguished between provider- (sensor) centric and user- 
	(observation, property) centric viewpoints. Provider-centric is most closely related to SensorML, 
	consumer-centric motivated O&M    (3ZML)
	--[10:45] SimonCox: Now we lost Tara?    (3ZMM)
	--[10:46] FrancescaQuattri: Tara, we cannot hear you    (3ZMN)
	--[10:46] PeterYim: we just lost Tara ... hope she connects back in a moment    (3ZMO)
	--[10:46] TaraAthan: I'll try to reconnect    (3ZMP)
	--[10:47] PeterYim: great!    (3ZMQ)
	--[10:47] TaraAthan: skype froze on me    (3ZMR)
	--[10:47] PeterYim: take your time, Tara    (3ZMS)
	--[10:50] TaraAthan: I'm back now, calling in from my landline    (3ZMT)
	[10:50] NelcyPina: Sorry, I cannot see the slides...    (3ZMU)
	[10:51] NelcyPina: I am hearing Tara but I cannot see the slides :(    (3ZMV)
	[10:52] NelcyPina: let me see ...    (3ZMW)
	[10:59] NelcyPina: Thank you @PeterYim and @SimonCox    (3ZMX)
	[10:52] PeterYim: @NelcyPina - if you have trouble with the vnc shared-screen, just download the 
	slides and run them on your own machine locally    (3ZMY)
	[10:47] AmandaVizedom: @JoshLieberman - I'm not so sure. The idea that *truth* is relative in that 
	way most often shows up in naive or theoretical contexts that don't seriously incorporate social 
	means and methods of gathering or checking information. The idea of observation as quite complex and 
	typically incorporating social elements, on the other hand, is one well-developed approach in 
	epistemology and philosophy of science, and generally not relativistic about truth in that way.    (3ZMZ)
	[10:48] SimonCox: I like view that if there is no experimental or social context there is no observation.    (3ZN0)
	[10:49] SimonCox: But that feels like it is at a different meta-level than the usual natural science context    (3ZN1)
	[10:49] AmandaVizedom: @JoshLieberman - but I agree with you that it is fascinating. Modeling either 
	way has special areas of emphasis and dilution.    (3ZN2)
	[10:50] SimonCox: [responding to MichaelGruninger's question on where one can find the owl 
	axiomatization of the various ontologies mentioned in the preseentation] Start here: 
	http://def.seegrid.csiro.au/isotc211/    (3ZN3)
	[10:50] SimonCox: This is a temporary domain until ISO/TC 211 finalizes ISO 19150-2 (which will not 
	be for a couple of years :-( (    (3ZN4)
	[10:51] SimonCox: if you ask for http://def.seegrid.csiro.au/isotc211/iso19156/2011/sampling you 
	should get the lot    (3ZN5)
	[10:51] AmandaVizedom: @SimonCox - many would agree with that, Using "observation" as a technical 
	concept, distinct from, say experiencing some stimuli, and even more specifically as something in a 
	particular relationship to experiments, data, and measurement.    (3ZN6)
	[10:52] AlexShkotin: We need here define physical algorithms (observation|measurement) - this is a challenge:-)    (3ZN7)
	[10:53] SimonCox: need to be a little careful about Accept: header (http) - I tried to set up server 
	so you get rdf/xml by default, to match OWL API, but some browsers don;t play nice, so if you get a 
	surprising result, set application/rdf+xml explicitly ...    (3ZN8)
	[10:56] SimonCox: SensorML, and also ISO 19115-2 have modelled sensor/platform systems    (3ZN9)
	[10:56] SimonCox: (SensorML is OGC standard)    (3ZNA)
	[10:57] SimonCox: @Tara - perhaps this one: 
	http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/wiki/Incubator_Report#Aligning_the_SSN_Ontology_and_the_core_SSO_design_pattern_with_DOLCE    (3ZNB)
	[10:59] SimonCox: SSN strongly represents provider-centric viewpoint, as shown by the support 
	provider for sensor system description, and sensor-stimulus model    (3ZNC)

	[11:01] TaraAthan: 
	SSN class </Users/taraathan/Downloads/Semantic-Sensor-Network-Ontologies--CoryHenson_SSN-subset-TA_20131017.pdf (is subclass of) DUL class 
	Deployment < Process(DUL)
	SensorOutput < InformationObject
	Observation < Situation
	Device < DesignedArtifact
	System, Sensor, Platform < PhysicalObject
	SensorInput < Event
	Process(SSN) < Method
	FeatureOfInterest < Event or Object
	Property < Quality
	ObservationValue < Region (a region in a dimensional space which can be used as a value for a quality 
                                   of an Entity e.g. TimeInterval, SpaceRegion, PhysicalAttribute, Amount, . . .)
    (3ZPY)
	[10:59] PeterYim: == TorstenHahmann presenting ...    (3ZNE)
	--[11:03] BruceSimons: Has the conference call failed or just me?    (3ZNF)
	--[11:03] TaraAthan: just you    (3ZNG)
	--[11:03] JoshLieberman: Still going on.    (3ZNH)
	--[11:04] PeterYim: sorry BruceSimons, please dial back in again    (3ZNI)
	--[11:05] SimonCox: (@Bruce - skype can't see you, maybe restart skype)    (3ZNJ)
	--[11:05] BruceSimons: @Peter Back in    (3ZNK)
	--[11:06] PeterYim: @BruceSimons - great!    (3ZNL)
	[11:05] AmandaVizedom: @TorstenHahmann +1 on the lesser emphasis on relationships.    (3ZNM)
	[11:13] TaraAthan: how is "water" defined- does it include dissolved substances? 
	suspended particles? fish?    (3ZNN)
	[11:13] SimonCox: Crocodiles?    (3ZNO)
	[11:13] GaryBergCross: With whatever time we have for discussion presenters may have a chance for 
	discussing of each other's ideas.    (3ZNP)
	[11:14] MikeBennett: Crocodile-infested water is surely a sub class of water, with a restriction on 
	the property "infestedBy"?    (3ZNQ)
	[11:14] DeborahMacPherson: Need to take off - thanks for the interesting presentations!    (3ZNR)
	[11:14] GaryBergCross: @tara there may be bio, geo and chemical constituents of a water body.    (3ZNS)
	[11:15] TaraAthan: @gary - thx    (3ZNT)
	[11:16] LuisBermudez: @SimonCox @TaraAthan - One issue with the SSN and the OM model is that SSN 
	doesn't treat Sensor as a subclass of Process (in O&M called Procedure). In SSN a Sensor can 
	implement some Sensing, and Sensing is sub class of Process, but I don't see this as a big issue.    (3ZNU)
	[11:16] AmandaVizedom: Presumably, and noting the particular wording on slide 10, any of those 
	things could be *in* the water body, but they would not be *constituents* of the water body.    (3ZNV)
	[11:17] GaryBergCross: Reminder the free Nov 18-19 SOCoP workshop page is at 
	http://vocamp.org/wiki/GeoVoCampDC2013. Please come...this means you Amanda and Josh.    (3ZNW)
	[11:17] AmandaVizedom: Noted, Gary. Will email you about that.    (3ZNX)
	[11:18] SimonCox: SSN and O&M are each self-consciously domain-neutral    (3ZNY)
	[11:19] SimonCox: Thanks @Amanda - Crocodiles may be constituents of water-body, but not of water    (3ZNZ)
	[11:19] AmandaVizedom: @SimonCox - Thereby supporting documentation of hydrological samples and 
	measurement of the ppm of crocodiles.    (3ZO0)
	[11:19] AmandaVizedom: !    (3ZO1)
	[11:20] MikeBennett: Good insight. infestedBy and similar properties would be properties of 
	WaterBody not of Water as such.    (3ZO2)
	[11:20] AlexShkotin: @Torsten, you are on the way to build axiomatic theory of hydrology!    (3ZO3)
	[11:21] PeterYim: == Open Discussion ...    (3ZO4)
	--[11:23] SimonCox: Can't hear Luis    (3ZO5)
	--[11:23] TaraAthan: audio problems    (3ZO6)
	--[11:23] GaryBergCross: a pulsing sound on the audio.    (3ZO7)
	--[11:24] LuisBermudez: Having problems with skype    (3ZO8)
	--[11:24] GaryBergCross: Luis - can you type your point in??    (3ZO9)
	--[11:24] NelcyPina: please type here @LuisBermudez    (3ZOA)
	[11:24] TorstenHahmann: yes, infestedBy crocodiles would be a property of a WaterBody, not of the water 
	(which may flow further downstream to a not-infested water body)    (3ZOB)
	[11:25] SimonCox: Are - distinguish between solution and suspension!    (3ZOC)
	[11:26] MikeBennett: ... and colloid (to complete the set)    (3ZOD)
	[11:26] SimonCox: We'll be getting into colloids next!    (3ZOE)
	[11:26] SimonCox: (snap)    (3ZOF)
	[11:26] FrancescaQuattri: Thank you to the Speakers. Looking forward to the next session.    (3ZOG)
	[11:27] SimonCox: Hmmm. Ontology begat chemistry / vv    (3ZOH)
	[11:28] AmandaVizedom: I believe that those sorts of chemistry distinctions have been formalized... 
	now I need to find a link to back that up...    (3ZOI)
	[11:28] SimonCox: Josh - observing vs reasoning. Some science involves more of the latter (e.g. geology)    (3ZOJ)
	[11:29] AlexShkotin: @Torsten, maybe we should speak about ecological system in hydrology.    (3ZOK)
	[11:29] SimonCox: sensing vs. reasoning    (3ZOL)
	[11:26] LuisBermudez: @Torsten, How far do you think OGC should go standardizing Geospatial Ontologies?    (3ZOM)
	[11:29] TorstenHahmann: @Luis: good question. I think being able to verify the consistency of the standards 
	would be a reasonable goal. Of course, it is probably out of scope to formalize all kinds of geographic toponyms    (3ZON)
	[11:29] JoshLieberman: I might think of it more as established versus contingent processing of a measurement.    (3ZOO)
	[11:30] LuisBermudez: @Torsten thank you will follow up with you later about what you mean by "consistency of standards"    (3ZOP)
	[11:31] TorstenHahmann: @Luis: sure, would be happy to discuss it in more detail    (3ZOQ)
	[11:34] GaryBergCross: @Torsten I agree that it can go both ways and does, but perhaps standard 
	bodies need to support the heavy work.    (3ZOR)
	[11:35] LuisBermudez: @Gary et al. I lost my audio    (3ZOS)
	[11:36] GaryBergCross: @Simon - good point to put on record the crisis of geospatial standards because of limitations    (3ZOT)
	[11:42] SimonCox: @Gary - I mentioned 'crisis' in standards - adoption lags development, which lags 
	design, by years or decades.    (3ZOU)
	[11:43] SimonCox: We already know that OGC interface standards are out of date, yet institutions are 
	only now adopting and deploying    (3ZOV)
	[11:43] SimonCox: There are some thing which will endure however: mostly information side (models)    (3ZOW)
	[11:38] AlexShkotin: Standards should use CNL first of all - like ACE;-) It's a step to formalization:-)    (3ZOX)
	[11:39] SimonCox: CNL?    (3ZOY)
	[11:39] AlexShkotin: Controlled Natural Language    (3ZOZ)
	[11:40] SimonCox: But they are already committed to UML, and have big corpus ...    (3ZP0)
	[11:41] AlexShkotin: @Simon, then we need converter from UML to CNL;-)    (3ZP1)
	[11:41] GaryBergCross: @Alex CNL yes +1.    (3ZP2)
	[11:42] GaryBergCross: JohnSowa made some efforts to describe a CNL for Common Logic.    (3ZP3)
	[11:43] AlexShkotin: We convert our petrology DB to ACE manually:-(    (3ZP4)
	[11:43] AlexShkotin: @Gary, this is a trend CNL - FOL:-)    (3ZP5)
	[11:38] GaryBergCross: Simon's observations are similar to what Bill McCarthy presented: Tension 
	between a theoretical ontology community and a standards community.    (3ZP6)
	[11:40] MikeBennett: @Gary that's something I think Bill and I will pick up on in our session.    (3ZP7)
	[11:39] PeterYim: ... we have a really distributed participation today ... quite a number of 
	countries are represented here: I can recognize (at least) folks from Australia (Melbourne and Sydney), 
	Canada, China (Hong Kong), Germany, Romania, Russia, United Kingdom, United States and Venezuela    (3ZP8)
	[11:39] PeterYim: To get involved in the OntologyBasedStandards dialog, please subscribe yourself to 
	the [ontology-based-standards] list, if you haven't already - 
	http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontology-based-standards    (3ZP9)
	[11:39] PeterYim: Join us next week (Thu 2013-10-24) for the RulesReasoningLP: Mini-series Launch 
	Event - co-chairs: LeoObrst & BenjaminGrosof - ref. developing session details at: 
	http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2013_10_24    (3ZPA)
	[11:40] GaryBergCross: Thank you all. we could have had 2 sessions on this. I hope the conversation 
	continues in the Ontolog and SOCoP forums.    (3ZPB)
	[11:40] JoshLieberman: Thanks Gary and Tara for organizing.    (3ZPC)
	[11:40] SimonCox: How fast can retrofit happen?    (3ZPD)
	[11:40] AlexShkotin: Thank you all:-)    (3ZPE)
	[11:41] GaryBergCross: Thanks again Simon....it was great to have you on.    (3ZPF)
	[11:41] PeterYim: sorry about the connection problems today! (I'll clean that up in the recording)    (3ZPG)
	[11:41] PeterYim: great session! thanks everyone ...    (3ZPH)
	[11:41] TaraAthan: Thanks to the speakers, and also the attendees for some great questions.    (3ZPI)
	[11:44] SimonCox: Time for shower/breakfast    (3ZPJ)
	[11:44] SimonCox: ;-)    (3ZPK)
	[11:44] AlexShkotin: Time to sleep:-)    (3ZPL)
	[11:45] AlexShkotin: C u    (3ZPM)
	[11:45] GaryBergCross: have a good day ..or night... bye    (3ZPN)
	[11:47] NelcyPina: thanks for the session! :)    (3ZPO)
	[11:48] NelcyPina: But I feel that a meeting like this is not complete...    (3ZPP)
	[11:49] NelcyPina: We could be in touch to comment after the session    (3ZPQ)
	[11:51] NelcyPina: but I know its difficult I have not had lunch yet and for @AlexShkotin it's time to sleep    (3ZPR)
	[11:51] PeterYim: @NelcyPina - the [ontology-based-standards] mailing list is available for that, if 
	you haven't already joined - please consider subscribing to it at: 
	http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontology-based-standards ... the mailing list will allow us 
	to have an asynchronous conversation    (3ZPS)
	[11:53] NelcyPina: ok    (3ZPT)
	[11:55] PeterYim: closing the chat-room now! Bye, everyone!    (3ZPU)
	[11:56] NelcyPina: bye    (3ZPV)
	[11:56] LuisBermudez: Bye. Thank you    (3ZPW)
	[11:41] PeterYim: -- session ended: 11:40am PDT --    (3ZPX)
 -- end of in-session chat-transcript --    (3ZAF)

Additional Resources:    (3ZAL)

For the record ...    (3ZAQ)

How To Join (while the session is in progress)    (3ZAR)