Dear David (P), (01)
My previous e-mail was not intended to be negative, but a suggestion on how
to carry things forward - 2 years is "NOW" in standardization :). (02)
The NASA Sweet ontology has always seemed OK to me. ISO 15926-4 has a number
of units used in the process industry, including US units such as the US
Survey Foot for length and acre-foot for volume, which may not be in the
NASA Sweet ontology. Feel free to make use of them. (03)
The amendment to ISO 15926-4 currently out for ballot assigns URIs to these
units. This is not our job, but we have to do it "NOW" in order to have RDF
implementations of ISO 15926. It is my unease at this ad hoc approach to
units on the web which motivated the proposal for a long term (2 year) strategy. (04)
Best regards.
David (L) (05)
At 09:46 13/05/2009 +0100, you wrote:
>One last try:-)
>
>My original question was about a small subset of units as presented
>during the summit F2F that we could focus on as a starter set. The
>Subject of this thread is what we might do 'Now' - not in 2-10 years.
>The responses suggest that other projects either don't have an immediate
>need, already have their own units ontology or are not interested in
>doing something common in the short term - I understand that now.
>
>WRT some expert advice : For lack of any ontology related to NIST/OASIS
>UnitsML or ISO-land it appears to me I should point the OASIS PLCS TC at
>the NASA Sweet Ontology for Units. Anyone done analysis of that and
>found any glaring errors?
>
>Cheers,
>David
>
>On Tue, 2009-05-12 at 13:03 -0700, Duane Nickull wrote:
>> This might be a great place to perform some ontology work which would
>> demonstrate a huge benefit to society. The WCO has major issues
>> mapping to and from various languages for UoM. For example, in
>> Japan, you use a completely different counting system for anything
>> that is flat. Even thinks in North America have vastly different
>> units of measure. Mapping each of these ontology concepts to terms in
>> various languages would be a huge issue. Think about these units of
>> measure:
>>
>> A dozen eggs
>> A “loaf” of bread, but also has weight
>> Apples are not sold each in most places but by aggregate weight
>> Liquids are sold by volume
>> Long things are often sold in lengths
>> Flat things are often sold in square feet or meters
>> Firewood is sold by volume (chords), processed timber is sold by
>> units, square feet, length and other measures. They all come from
>> trees.
>> ...
>>
>> This list goes on and on.
>>
>> I bet there would be funding for this type of work.
>>
>> D
>>
>>
>> On 5/10/09 12:14 PM, "David Leal" <david.leal@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Henson,
>>
>> I agree with your comments, but the terminology is difficult.
>> See:
>>
>> ISO 31-0:1992 - Quantities and units - Part 0 - General
>> principles, Clause 2.1:
>>
>> "Physical quantities may be grouped together into categories
>> of quantities
>> which are mutually comparable. Lengths, diameters, distances,
>> heights,
>> wavelengths and so on would constitute such a category.
>> Mutually comparable
>> quantities are called "quantities of the same kind."
>>
>> "If a particular example of a quantity from such a category is
>> chosen as a
>> reference quantity called the <em>unit</em>, then any other
>> quantity from
>> this category can be expressed in terms of this unit, as a
>> product of this
>> unit and a number."
>>
>> >From this I deduce that:
>> - The length 2.3 m is a "quantity".
>> - Length is a "quantities of the same kind". The synonym
>> "quantity category"
>> is also used implicitly used in the text.
>>
>> I don't think that the ISO 31-0 terminology is ideal (I do not
>> know whether
>> ISO 80000 is the same). However, it is important to have an
>> onotology which
>> uses the same terminology of the standards from which it is
>> derived. This is
>> why it is necessary to have ISO TC12 on board.
>>
>> The second paragraph worries me - this is true for some
>> "quantities of the
>> same kind", but not others. Perhaps after discussion we can
>> define the
>> subclass of "quantities of the same kind" for which this is
>> true.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> David
>>
>> p.s. I have take the liberty of cc'ing this to the ontology
>> summit to see if
>> the discussion "rings any bells" with others.
>>
>> At 11:05 08/05/2009 -0500, you wrote:
>> > Dear David,
>> >This is the beginning of a good idea. My comments will be a
>> bit random
>> >as I have not been thinking about this lately. However in
>> answer, I
>> >believe that length is an example of what upper ontologies
>> call a
>> >Quantity. Length would be a specialization of quantity.
>> Quantity is
>> >what I belive is called a "reaified" class. Quantities can be
>> >measured/computed in various ways using different kinds of
>> units. I
>> >believe that a meter is a unit of length measurement. We have
>> had a lot
>> >of discussion of this stuff which I have forgotten. What I
>> say may be
>> >wrong, but perhaps it will prompt you to take the next shot
>> at it. I
>> >believe that upperontologies use "haslength" as a role that
>> takes a
>> >value in the length quantity space, and haslengthinmeters is
>> the
>> >composition of haslenght and some "coordination function"
>> defined on the
>> >quantity which takes numeric or ordinal values. Let me know
>> what you
>> >think
>> >Regards
>> >- Henson
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: David Leal [mailto:david.leal@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>> >Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 10:52 AM
>> >To: Graves, Henson; vicki.bailey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >Subject: RE: [ontology-summit] Progressing a Units Ontology -
>> Now
>> >
>> >Dear Henson,
>> >
>> >Perhaps we would start with the statement: "The metre is a
>> unit of
>> >length."
>> >
>> >1) What sort of thing is "length"?
>> >
>> >2) What sort of things can have a unit?
>> >
>> >3) What does "unit of" add to the statement "The metre is a
>> length"?
>> >
>> >4) In the statement "The metre is a length", what does "is a"
>> mean?
>> >
>> >With an agreed answer to each of these, I think we would be
>> near a first
>> >deliverable.
>> >
>> >Best regards,
>> >David
>>
>> ============================================================
>> David Leal
>> CAESAR Systems Limited
>> registered office: 29 Somertrees Avenue, Lee, London SE12 0BS
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>> web site: http://www.caesarsystems.co.uk
>> ============================================================
>>
>>
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============================================================
David Leal
CAESAR Systems Limited
registered office: 29 Somertrees Avenue, Lee, London SE12 0BS
registered in England no. 2422371
tel: +44 (0)20 8857 1095
mob: +44 (0)77 0702 6926
e-mail: david.leal@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
web site: http://www.caesarsystems.co.uk
============================================================ (07)
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