Bruce,
Thanks for the critique; you clearly see the linguistic
complications of interpreting fruit fly behavior in anthropomorphic
terms. Everything you said about defining, describing, naming,
enumerating, and even architecting the emotions in easily communicable ways appears
to be beyond the current state of the art. But the Cal Tech study seems
to put a hook in that fish which we hope to reel in over the next few
years of research. (Nice analogy, huh?).
Sincerely,
Rich Cooper,
Rich Cooper,
Chief Technology Officer,
MetaSemantics Corporation
MetaSemantics AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com
( 9 4 9 ) 5 2 5-5 7 1 2
http://www.EnglishLogicKernel.com
From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bruce
Schuman
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 2:16 PM
To: '[ontolog-forum] '
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Fruit fly emotions mimic human emotions -
ontology discovery possible?
No
doubt I should restrain myself in this present august company, but having spent
the last two days transversing the mysteries of website database migration,
with ample illustration of semantic ambiguity along the way, and having
searched this discussion for some reference to this old joke and not found one,
I just can’t help it.
Time
flies like an arrow
Fruit
flies like a banana
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_flies_like_an_arrow;_fruit_flies_like_a_banana
So
what is the meaning of “mimic”
What
is or is not an “emotion”
Are
we talking about “analogy”
If
so, in what dimensions? Can those be measured? Maybe we’re
talking about “homomorphic attribute mapping?”
Or
maybe “metaphor”
Or
perhaps “synonym”
Or
“comparison”
Or
“similarity”
Or
“simile”
Or
“homomorphism”
Maybe
we claim that in the end, there is no such thing as definition (except by
hand-shaking agreement?)
Because
all this stuff floats in a plastic sea of ungrounded dimensionality
substantiated by soft statistical processes like Facebook likes….
No
absolute foundation for defining anything?
No
one best way to build information structures
No
primal directives from a universal ontology
No
absolute simplification by absolute data compression
Adhocery
and sword-fighting forever…
Or
– a new foundation that makes civilization workable…. ????
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy
Ok,
I really do know better, my apologies, but this old joke about the banana has
been out there forever, and it seems so relevant….
Bruce
Schuman, Santa Barbara
From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rich Cooper
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 12:51 PM
To: '[ontolog-forum] '
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Fruit fly emotions mimic human emotions -
ontology discovery possible?
Here is a TEDx talk by the same professor (David Anderson):
http://tedxcaltech.caltech.edu/content/david-anderson
Sincerely,
Rich Cooper,
Rich Cooper,
Chief Technology Officer,
MetaSemantics Corporation
MetaSemantics AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com
( 9 4 9 ) 5 2 5-5 7 1 2
http://www.EnglishLogicKernel.com
Ontologists All,
If fruit flies can and do indeed exhibit all the "component"
emotions that humans can and do exhibit, then the fruit flies could be
investigated as subjects in experiments about emotions, and about possible
pharmaceutical candidates, related to emotional disturbances.
Here is a quote from a Cal Tech lab report:
"These
experiments provide objective
evidence that visual stimuli designed to mimic an overhead predator can induce
a persistent and scalable internal state of defensive
arousal in flies, which can influence their subsequent behavior for
minutes after the threat has passed," Anderson says. "For us, that's
a big step beyond just casually intuiting that a fly fleeing a visual threat
must be 'afraid,' based on our anthropomorphic
assumptions. It suggests that the flies' response to the
threat is richer and more complicated than a robotic-like avoidance reflex."
The report doesn't identify which emotional "components"
they "observed" in fruit flies after simulating existential threats
to the flies. But I would expect Cal Tech professors to get their ducks
in a straight row fairly often since Pasadena is so far from the surf.
Here is the report from their web site:
http://www.caltech.edu/news/do-fruit-flies-have-emotions-46769
Would it be possible to automate an evoked response that
demonstrates each emotional state designated by the professor as a
"component"? If so, would it then be possible to write an
ontology discovery program that explores that space using a buncha fruit flies
crossed with a buncha experimental situations?
It would only have to start with the observed components'
emotional effects. Then that information could be used to design
specialized and generalized experiments to produce more organized
behaviors. The experiments, specializations and generalizations would, of
course, form some kind of lattice in the end if all components can
be observed.
That could also be a way to work on identifying which of the
emotional "components" are truly fundamental to those of us who are descended
from the fruit fly. Perhaps even emotional illnesses, such as
schizophrenia, OCD, bipolarity, etc. could be matched to new drugs based on
this emotion research in flies.
But the first step is in creating an ontology that might be
observed in other fruit flies, but varied due to their individual genetic
divergences.
Suggestions anyone?
Sincerely,
Rich Cooper,
Rich Cooper,
Chief Technology Officer,
MetaSemantics Corporation
MetaSemantics AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com
( 9 4 9 ) 5 2 5-5 7 1 2
http://www.EnglishLogicKernel.com