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Re: [ontolog-forum] Practical Semantic Primitives

To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: Phil Murray <pcmurray2000@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 14:50:28 -0400
Message-id: <52092E74.7010008@xxxxxxxxx>
Just my two cents about faceted classification ...    (01)

Faceted classification in Library and Information Science (LIS) is a 
very simple but powerful idea -- specifying the subject matter of a 
document by referencing multiple orthogonal taxonomies -- that was 
formalized by Ranganathan. It has found a natural home in many 
commercial web sites and in computer ontologies.    (02)

Please note that the Wikipedia page on faceted classification is almost 
worthless. A person who knew little about faceted classification took it 
upon himself in 2007 to rewrite what was there and diminished the value 
of that information. At that time, I asked a couple of the real experts 
on the topic (Kathryn La Barre and Claudio Gnoli) to consider updating 
the Wikipedia page, but they have not done so.    (03)

I recommend a few resources:    (04)

1. One of Ranganathan's own descriptions:    (05)

http://www.isibang.ac.in/~library/portal/Pages/chp6.pdf 
<http://www.isibang.ac.in/%7Elibrary/portal/Pages/chp6.pdf>    (06)

 From (I believe) Library Classification Through A Century. A note 
prepared by S.R. Ranganthan. 1971-72    (07)

2. Ms. La Barre's dissertation, "The use of faceted analytico-synthetic 
theory as revealed in the practice of website construction and design" 
(2006)    (08)

... which has been available at 
http://netfiles.uiuc.edu/klabarre/www/LaBarre_FAST.pdf    (09)

... but which was not accessible at the time I wrote this.    (010)


3. And, from a broader LIS perspective, A. C. Foskett's _The subject 
approach to information_ (4th edition, 1982)    (011)

Phil Murray    (012)


Gary Berg-Cross wrote:
> Bruce,
>
> Discussing primitives in terms of communication and conversation does 
> provide a language frame including the more cognitive idea of 
> speaker's/agent's intentions.
>
> Bruce>A “good speaker” would clarify their intention very carefully – 
> and a “good listener” would form from all available clues their best 
> interpretation of that intention.
>
> Bruce> My guiding instinct in this – as regards “primitives” or any 
> other kind of system built on word-categories with presumed meanings – 
> is that they will always fail, and tend to “lock up” because of 
> implicit (“unconscious”) factors inherent in their definition.
>
>
> I think we agree that an approach to semantic primitives build on word 
> categories is not adequate.
>
>
> I might not agree with some of the term-concepts you used about 
> speaker and listen "as One" or in Resonance or Parsing meaning from 
> the object of a communication act etc. Metaphors like parsing, 
> suggesting processing of a language object may not be a good model for 
> what is going on in human communication which I think is more 
> interpretive and includes the idea of constructing meaning as a 
> interpretation.
>
>
> The constructionist stance is harder to appreciate at first, but it 
> seems a better fit for our understanding of how a child comes to 
> “know” the world. It is more like Piaget’s philosophy that what passes 
> for reality (and hence our knowledge of it and our language about it) 
> is better understood as a socially constructed model.
>
>
> This view is more prevalent in the social rather than physical 
> sciences. Sociologists like to talk about how people construct their 
> knowledge within culturally situated environment and the practices 
> that go on there.
>
>
> This is a nod towards a Use model, such as John Sowa mentioned and is 
> a more humble and flexible approach. It is less objective, which may 
> bother some, since it has the taste that we are not generally talking 
> about universally true knowledge when we talk about what human 
> understand.We are mostly talking about some practical approximation.
>
>
> This is even true in our formal models which are based on axioms that 
> we construct and assemble. It may be as etymologically human-centric 
> as a cultural appreciation of a dance which is constrained by our 
> species bodily mechanics. and the suite of cultural ideas about dance 
> developed over time. The latter may change the environmental 
> interactions we an engage in. So dance and experiences can change over 
> time. Our children may use the term "smart phone" more than "Louse" so 
> it becomes a stable term.
>
>
>
> Gary Berg-Cross, Ph.D.
> gbergcross@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:gbergcross@xxxxxxxxx>
> http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?GaryBergCross
> NSF INTEROP Project
> http://www.nsf.gov/awardsearch/showAward.do?AwardNumber=0955816
> SOCoP Executive Secretary
> Knowledge Strategies
> Potomac, MD
> 240-426-0770
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Bruce Schuman <bruceschuman@xxxxxxx 
> <mailto:bruceschuman@xxxxxxx>> wrote:
>
>     Thank you, Gary.
>
>     I am doing what I can to clarify this perhaps confusing notion of
>     “distinction” as I understand it – wanting to define it in a very
>     primal or basic way indeed – and then, on the basis of that
>     definition, build a very fluently adaptive kind of interpreter – a
>     “shape-shifter”, so to speak – where the particulars are entirely
>     shaped by immediate intent.A “good speaker” would clarify their
>     intention very carefully – and a “good listener” would form from
>     all available clues their best interpretation of that intention.
>
>     My guiding instinct in this – as regards “primitives” or any other
>     kind of system built on word-categories with presumed meanings –
>     is that they will always fail, and tend to “lock up” because of
>     implicit (“unconscious”) factors inherent in their definition.
>
>     For me – the guiding phrase for an illuminated solution is “ad hoc
>     top-down stipulation” – or maybe “ad hoc top-down decomposition”.
>
>     By that phrase, I mean to offer the speaker the absolute
>     unrestricted freedom to parse their meaning to the nth degree
>     exactly as they intend – while skillfully drawing from the
>     shared/common pool of meanings to help ensure that the listener
>     can grasp the intended meaning.Colin Cherry cites the thought that
>     speaker and listener “are one”.Maybe this goes to the “communion”
>     aspects of “communication”.There is a feedback/confirmation
>     relationship set up between speaker and listener, where both
>     parties can test and confirm the accuracy of the received meaning
>     – and when it’s working, the relationship tends to become
>     “resonant”.That process might be what is meant by the concept of
>     “games” as it has been mentioned in this forum.
>
>     For me – the basic “cut” or distinction – the “ultimate primitive”
>     – is the prime algebraic definition of distinction – the Dedekind
>     Cut – the point at which rational numbers intersect the
>     continuum.On that basis, in a purely algebraic way, I am trying to
>     build up a model of semantic dimensionality that is “absolutely
>     fluent” (“continuously variable in all dimensions”).On this basis,
>     I think we can define the fundamental dimensionality of
>     “similarity” (and thus create a genus/taxon), and the fundamental
>     dimensionality of “difference” (thus creating subtypes within that
>     taxon).
>
>     If we are talking about “faceted classification” – as per
>     Ranganathan(as I understand it) – what we are hoping for is
>     absolutely fluent ways to decompose or interpret higher-level
>     categories into their particulars.Unlike a rigid top-down
>     taxonomy, faceted classification offers multiple alternative ways
>     to decompose the higher-level meanings into specifics, depending
>     on purpose or
>     intent.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faceted_classification
>
>     What I am trying to do – by refining the concept of “distinction”
>     to its absolute rock-bottom minimalist algebraic meaning, and then
>     building up every possible word meaning from there through an
>     ascending algebraic hierarchy composed of nested distinctions
>     (“similarities and differences”) is create a way that is so
>     absolutely fluent that every dimension of difference can be freely
>     stipulated by the speaker, exactly as desired, to a highly refined
>     and almost-continuously-variable degree.
>
>     Thus, my general approach to a so-called universal semantic
>     ontology is to begin by asserting that this is only possible (as I
>     understand it) within the framework of intentional stipulation
>     (where there no rigid adherence to some common/shared pool of
>     meanings – a huge international dictionary -- but rather, that
>     pool is understood as suggestive).
>
>     This approach, I think, can work in a private context, where a
>     communicating individual is fully authorized to freely assign
>     meaning under their own intentions.This, I think – is what people
>     are doing all the time.They say what they want, intending meaning
>     as they want, stipulating meaning as they intend, howsoever they wish.
>
>     This becomes much more problematic, however, when we are trying to
>     define a robust pool of shared meanings that everyone can depend
>     on – in every context, for every purpose, in every situation.That
>     kind of universality might (?) be impossible – because exact
>     word-meaning is always local/ad hoc – and cannotbe rigidly bound
>     to a common/shared agreement – like the Dewey Decimal System – or
>     for another rock-solid example that seems to work, the Periodic
>     Table of the Elements in chemistry.
>
>     On that theme – if there is some hope to solve the problem of
>     universalizing widely shared meaning, my initial/experimental
>     thought might involve some kind of “dimensional negotiation” on a
>     large scale.I think we could do this on a small or personal scale
>     today.But setting up a widely shared pool of “all meanings for all
>     people for all occasions” seems very problematic – and maybe
>     crazy.Or – maybe a huge empirical project involving thousands or
>     millions of “word senses” could somehow do a very good
>     statistical/probabilistic interpretation.A kind of “parser for all
>     seasons” with very good first approximations….
>
>     But for me, trying to render this idea coherent at all, at a
>     minimalist scale – I just want to get the algebraic process
>     defined clearly from the ground up – following the principles of
>     “conceptual relativity”, more or less as JS outlines them in
>     Chapter 7 of Conceptual Structures.
>
>     Thanks to all for the very interesting themes emerging
>     here.Library science is very relevant and suggestive.
>
>     Bruce Schuman
>
>     (805) 966-9515 <tel:%28805%29%20966-9515> Santa Barbara
>
>     http://interspirit.net | http://sharedpurpose.net |
>     http://bridgeacrossconsciousness.net
>
>     *From:*ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>     <mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>     [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>     <mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>] *On Behalf Of
>     *Gary Berg-Cross
>     *Sent:* Monday, August 12, 2013 7:32 AM
>
>
>     *To:* [ontolog-forum]
>     *Subject:* Re: [ontolog-forum] Practical Semantic Primitives
>
>     Some of this discussion has involved the idea of
>     composition/construction/building of primitive "concepts" into
>     more complex concepts.
>
>     Bruce, for exampe said
>
>     > As regards the ???atoms/molecules??? analogy ??? for me, the
>     right approach
>
>     >is to look for a ???fundamental particle???. Even atoms are
>     composite
>
>     >structures. If we are going to take a bottom-up approach to
>     constructing
>
>     >every possible cognitive unit, we need to build these units from
>     something
>
>     >truly fundamental.
>
>     One point here is that this composition is anything but simple or
>     obvious.
>
>     We often fall back on some ideas we consider foundational like
>     ideas of Constituent Parts into Wholes like words in a sentence.
>
>     We fall very naturally into a Katz and Fodor type of additive
>     semantic feature model like (Male) + (Human) +(Mature) = Man.
>
>     Even this structure semantics appraoch turn out to be pretty
>     challenging and just a small area of what seems to be involved in
>     semantic processes composing a new concept out of a starter set of
>     primitives. After all what does + in such a model mean?
>
>     Gary Berg-Cross, Ph.D.
>
>     gbergcross@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:gbergcross@xxxxxxxxx>
>
>     http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?GaryBergCross
>
>     NSF INTEROP Project
>
>     http://www.nsf.gov/awardsearch/showAward.do?AwardNumber=0955816
>
>     SOCoP Executive Secretary
>
>     Knowledge Strategies
>
>     Potomac, MD
>
>     240-426-0770 <tel:240-426-0770>
>
>     On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 2:06 PM, Bruce Schuman
>     <bruceschuman@xxxxxxx <mailto:bruceschuman@xxxxxxx>> wrote:
>
>     Thanks to all for the comments and the replies.
>
>     Just to restate this point again -- my use of the word "primitive"
>     has probably been confusing -- since for almost everybody it means
>     something like "a list of words".
>
>     "Aristotle's primitives, which he called categories, include
>     Substance, Quantity, Quality, Relation, Time, Position, State,
>     Activity, and Passivity. These are ultimate primitives to which
>     all other concepts are supposed to be reducible."
>     http://originresearch.com/sd/sd4.cfm Many others use the term
>     “primitive” in similar ways, looking for some “best” or “correct”
>     list of words.
>
>     What I have meant by the term “primitive” might be better stated
>     as something like “fundamental algebraic distinction”. For me –
>     all words – including “primitives” – are composite abstract units
>     with implicit/nested dimensional decomposition, and the word is
>     the “name” for that composite abstract unit, assembled from
>     distinctions.
>
>     It might be totally true that “everybody knows what ‘tree’ means”
>     (item 23 on the Swadesh list) – but if we need to distinguish
>     “tree” from “not-tree” for some reason, we might have to get precise.
>
>     “Consider a tree. It has no sharp boundaries between parts; yet
>     words divide the tree into trunk, roots, branches, bark, twigs,
>     leaves, buds, knots, flowers, seeds, fruit, and even finer
>     subparts such as veins in the leaves and pistils in the flowers.
>     Even the boundary between the tree and the environment may be
>     indistinct: the tree may have started as a sprout from the root of
>     another tree and may still share a root system with its parents
>     and siblings; insects and animals may be living in the tree; a
>     vine may be climbing up the trunk, moss may be on the bark, fungus
>     may be growing on a dead branch, and bacteria in root nodules may
>     be supplying nutrients.” http://originresearch.com/sd/sd4.cfm
>
>     ***
>
>     I did take a close look at the "Swadesh List” --
>     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swadesh_list -- and yes it is
>     interesting, and seems a reasonable stab at "a basic common human
>     vocabulary". In the USA, it would be reasonable to expect that the
>     Democrats and the Republics and the Tea Party and the Progressives
>     would probably be comfortable with this pool of common meanings.
>     This is the basis of how we can talk to each other at all. But
>     throw a big complex messy abstract word like "Obamacare" into that
>     list -- and you've immediately got a firefight -- and a huge
>     splintered division over what the word means. Without a precise
>     “stipulation” of its meaning, any conversation immediately becomes
>     hopelessly fragmented –- and maybe dangerous. When conversations
>     are necessarily constrained by psychological bandwidth and time
>     limits, the use of broad abstractions in a public context is very
>     problematic.
>
>     As I was reading through the Swadesh list, I was reminded of a
>     constraint mentioned by Smith and Medin (1981) in their important
>     book "Categories and Concepts" -- where at the beginning, they
>     clarify the meaning of the broad term "concept" to generally mean
>     what they call "object concepts" -- things that can be named
>     simply, the kind of things that fit into taxonomies. They are not
>     talking about "concept" as the term might be popularly used (just
>     about anything anyone could think of) -- but in a narrower way
>     that reduces the complexity.
>
>     On the Swadesh list, the verbs don’t start until item 54. Most
>     everything listed before that are basic objects, or the basic
>     dimensions that describe objects.
>
>     ***
>
>     John: I agree that the search for good distinctions and defining
>     terms is useful. But the world is a continuum, and the range of
>     "games" that people play with words is open ended and constantly
>     varying. The common features among the games are fuzzy, rough, and
>     squishy approximations, not primitives in a mathematical sense.
>
>     Bruce: This thought that “the world is a continuum” is basic to
>     any understanding of concept formation – and is connected to the
>     essentially ad hoc nature of most word usage.
>
>     “Concepts are inventions of the human mind used to construct a
>     model of the world. They package reality into discrete units for
>     further processing, they support powerful mechanisms for doing
>     logic, and they are indispensable for precise, extended chains of
>     reasoning. But concepts and percepts cannot form a perfect model
>     of the world, -- they are abstractions that select features that
>     are important for one purpose, but they ignore details and
>     complexities that may be just as important for some other purpose.
>     Leech (1974) noted that "bony structured" concepts form an
>     imperfect match to a fuzzy world. People make black and white
>     distinctions when the world consists of a continuum of shadings.”
>     http://originresearch.com/sd/sd4.cfm
>
>     The mystery is – why do we choose to parse experience as we do?
>     The answer has something to do with motivation – what is our
>     point, what are we trying to accomplish? As a “continuum”, the
>     “world” or “reality” could be parsed in an infinite number of
>     alternative ways – but “for some reason” – we pick some particular
>     way.
>
>     Your comment that “the games people play are open-ended and
>     constantly varying”, as I understand it, has something to do with
>     immediate context of communication – everything in the situation,
>     everything I know about you and think you know about me. If I want
>     to successfully communicate with you, I use words I think you will
>     understand – based on any clues at my disposal….
>
>     But my thought about “mathematical definitions” and why they are
>     important emerges when the conversation becomes uncertain. Item 52
>     on the Swadesh list is “heart”. Could usage of that term be
>     confusing? Do you/I mean the physical heart that actually pumps
>     the blood, or some sense of emotional heart or center (“she’s got
>     a lot of heart”), or maybe “the heart of the town”? If we get
>     confused on that point, somebody might have to stipulate
>     something. Item 93 is “hot”. The question might immediately arise,
>     “How hot?” Maybe all we need to know is that somebody thinks it’s
>     hot. But if it matters – I’m a mechanic fixing a car, or a doctor
>     talking to a mother about a sick baby – I might have to know
>     exactly what is meant – and that might require a dimensional
>     stipulation. In this sense, “hot” is a (brief/abstract) ordinal
>     value for a numeric quantity that might have to be specified
>     exactly – or specified within a defined boundary value range.
>
>     So – for me, when I see this idea that there are “games” going on
>     with word meanings, I’m thinking two things: 1) the exact meaning
>     is context specific, and hence plastic and fluent and
>     context-dependent, so the “game” is figuring that out, and 2) if
>     we are unsure, or feeling some tension, we might have to
>     “negotiate” the meaning of the word – “hot” – or “cold” – or “dry”
>     – or indeed, many other words on the Swadesh list. Maybe that
>     negotiation process is a kind of “game” as we settle in to an
>     agreement on what we are talking about (for me, generally settling
>     on a mutually-acceptable boundary-value range).
>
>     John: Words with similar meanings are the result of common aspects
>     of human experience.
>
>     Bruce: This is the foundation of basic communication in language –
>     and most of these Swadesh concepts have a very limited range of
>     possible uncertainty. Generally, “we know what they mean”, and
>     their meanings are not highly context-specific.
>
>     Gary: On this view the meaning is not in, or embodied in, the word
>     symbol. Rather the personal meaning of a word-symbol is the
>     totality of what gets activated in a cognitive agent.
>
>     John: I agree. As Wittgenstein said, the meaning of a word is its use.
>
>     The multiple word senses are the result of the many ways that a
>     word is used. For each individual, each word is linked to a
>     growing and changing network of experiences. Word senses are
>     classifications that some lexicographer derived from citations of
>     word uses.
>
>     Bruce: And what I would say is – that each use of a word –
>     regardless of how widely understood or common the word might be –
>     is essentially stipulative. When I use a word in an act of
>     communication – it means what I want it to mean at that moment –
>     and I HOPE you understand it – drawing from all cues available to
>     you, certainly including the common pool of meanings that you and
>     I almost certainly share.
>
>     See Lewis Carroll on Humpty Dumpty talking to Alice in Through the
>     Looking Glass:
>
>     "I don't know what you mean by 'glory,'" Alice said.
>
>     Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. "Of course you don't - till I
>     tell you. I meant 'there's a nice knock-down argument for you!'"
>
>     "But 'glory' doesn't mean 'a nice knock-down argument'," Alice
>     objected.
>
>     "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful
>     tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor
>     less."
>
>     "The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so
>     many different things."
>
>     "The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master —
>     that's all."
>
>     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humpty_Dumpty
>     <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humpty_Dumpty>
>
>     Bruce (previously): For me – the word-symbol is a label for a
>     composite and implicit block of distinctions and “meanings”. For
>     reasons of psychological economy, people use brief word-labels for
>     complex ideas – leaving out many specific details and implications
>     because we don’t have time for the details (“the weeds”), and we
>     hope we can get away with skipping over them.
>
>     John: The stable words on the Swadesh list are good examples.
>     They're easy to recognize, they're associated with a frequently
>     occurring experience, and they're islands of stability in the
>     growing and changing network of associations.
>
>     Bruce: Yes. A lot like the “concepts” discussed by Smith and Medin.
>
>     John: Nouns dominate the list of stable words on the Swadesh list.
>     The verb 'drink' is the most stable verb, but it's 38th in
>     relative stability.
>
>     But note that emotional terms are absent from that list. The word
>     'good' is the only evaluative term, and it's 79th in stability.
>     People certainly use emotional and evaluative terms, but their
>     meanings are not stable -- i.e., the ways they are used tend to
>     change, and the word forms aren't preserved over the long term.
>
>     Bruce: Yes, these “qualitative variables” – as I might want to
>     call them – are very problematic. So, my approach tends to be
>     “dimensional” – with the concept of dimension generalized to
>     include qualitative (or “nominal” or “ordinal”) values – “good”,
>     “bad”, “better”, “worse”, etc. – with the precise value in some
>     particular usage entirely context-specific.
>
>     The framework to make this kind of stipulation meaningful is
>     absolutely context-dependent. At this level of abstraction, usage
>     is totally local and dependent on intent. And we might have to get
>     into a bunch of “word games” (or “boundary-value negotiations”) to
>     come to an agreement.
>
>     Thanks.
>
>     Bruce Schuman
>
>     (805) 966-9515 <tel:%28805%29%20966-9515> Santa Barbara
>
>     http://interspirit.net | http://sharedpurpose.net |
>     http://bridgeacrossconsciousness.net
>
>
>
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-- 
---------------------    (014)

The Semantic Advantage
Turning Information into Assets
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401-247-7899    (015)

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