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Re: [ontolog-forum] Dennett on the Darwinism of Memes

To: "[ontolog-forum] " <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "Obrst, Leo J." <lobrst@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 17:51:52 +0000
Message-id: <FDFBC56B2482EE48850DB651ADF7FEB01F19E161@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Also, I suggest reading Ron Dworkin's final article in the NYRB (an excerpt 
from his last, forthcoming book) : 
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/apr/04/religion-without-god/.     (01)

Thanks,
Leo    (02)

>-----Original Message-----
>From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-
>bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Barkmeyer, Edward J
>Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 12:43 PM
>To: [ontolog-forum]
>Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Dennett on the Darwinism of Memes
>
>I suppose this is what happens when we talk about our technology as
>"ontology".
>I am sure I will regret even contributing to this discussion.  But fools rush 
>in ...
>
>Pat Hayes wrote:
>
>> The basic scientific argument against the existence of God is that there is
>> absolutely no observational evidence for the existence of a God, nor any
>> reason to hypothesise such an entity in order to explain anything that is
>> observable.
>
>I agree that this is the basic scientific argument.  Now, I propose to play 
>"Devil's
>Advocate".
>
>Assuming we hypothesize the Big Bang to dispense with creation myths, how
>did the Big Bang itself come to be?
>"And God said, Let there be light. And there was light."  (Genesis 1: 3)
>
>That one biblical passage associates the prevalent scientific theory, now based
>on extensive observation, with an answer to the question the theory doesn't try
>to answer.  I don't have to believe that it is true (the "leap of faith"), in 
>order to
>recognize something that is now taken to be observable and is not explained by
>modern scientific theory.  It is, of course, possible that some yet less-than-
>understood phenomenon like "dark energy" might be the predecessor and
>explain the Big Bang, but the question is currently still open.
>
>> A very straightforward application of Occam's principle then suffices. Of
>course this is not a *proof*, but it is a sound *scientific* argument.
>
>I am merely proposing a possible counterexample to Pat's basis postulate,
>which would imply that the application of Occam's razor is premature (dicto
>simpliciter, if you will).
>
>I believe that the existence of God is unknowable.  It can be accepted or
>rejected without harm to the soundness of one's arguments for science.
>How the existence of God may relate to human behaviors is an entirely
>separate question, not to be confused (as it often is) with the fundamental
>question.
>
>-Ed
>
>P.S.  One other question that has always intrigued me:  How did a moderately
>successful pre-Iron Age agricultural and mercantile civilization come to
>postulate the Big Bang?  Or (in Genesis 1:2 , out-of-order) describe the
>formation of the solar system?  It is not hard to understand how the concept
>"Divine inspiration" comes into existence.  But it is also not unreasonable to
>suppose another source of that knowledge  ("Are we alone?"), which many
>"hard scientists" also think is nonsense. Underlying both of these 
>"conjectures"
>is another observation we cannot explain.
>
>
>--
>Edward J. Barkmeyer                     Email: edbark@xxxxxxxx
>National Institute of Standards & Technology
>Systems Integration Division
>100 Bureau Drive, Stop 8263             Work:   +1 301-975-3528
>Gaithersburg, MD 20899-8263             Mobile: +1 240-672-5800
>
>"The opinions expressed above do not reflect consensus of NIST,
> and have not been reviewed by any Government authority."
>
>
>
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