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Re: [ontolog-forum] Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis

To: "'[ontolog-forum] '" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "'Pat Hayes'" <phayes@xxxxxxx>, "'Steven Ericsson-Zenith'" <steven@xxxxxxx>
From: "Rich Cooper" <rich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 19:58:08 -0800
Message-id: <8244645A1B794E75A00772D6ECFC3572@Gateway>
I most definitely have an inner voice, which I use
to explore ideas and to debate with myself about
various possible courses of action.  I have had it
all my life, and I am surprised to learn that not
everyone (e.g., Pat) has the same inner voice.  I
can't imagine NOT having such a facility with
which to manage thinking!    (01)

I also have visual sense, perhaps like Pat's, in
which I can visualize mechanical and even
conceptual things and how they interact.  While
working in defense areas, I met a PhD
Mathematician and another PhD Physicist, both of
whom claimed to NOT have a visual memory in which
to sketch their thoughts.  I think this facility
was brought about by an exceptionally good high
school math teacher (a mechanical engineer about
80 years old who taught after retiring from GM)
who would consistently draw on the chalkboard
whatever math or geometry he was discussing to the
class.      (02)

One more thing; when I used medical MJ to treat a
pain condition (thanks California for prop 215) I
noticed that my inner voice was more of a simple
minded describer of what I was really thinking
about in depth (I have a hunch it was
right-brained thinking) and not, as I had always
previously thought, my primary personality
expressing itself.  I have had much less belief in
the exactness of my inner voice, and much more
internal focus on my nonlinguistic, creative and
visual side ever since.      (03)

The mind is a strange place indeed.    (04)

-RIch    (05)

Rich Cooper
Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com
9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1 2    (06)

-----Original Message-----
From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Steven Ericsson-Zenith
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 6:43 PM
To: Pat Hayes
Cc: [ontolog-forum] ; Rich Cooper
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Sapir-Whorf
Hypothesis    (07)

On Feb 25, 2013, at 5:45 PM, Pat Hayes
<phayes@xxxxxxx> wrote:    (08)

>> Consider the vast variety of experiments
involving brain damage (Roger Sperry's for
example) that show we are not always able to
report. I am thinking of cases where a witness
cannot report, or misreports, verbally but the
hand still reports correctly using language, a
fact that the individual appears unaware of.
> Those arose from bisecting the corpus callossum,
which is a rather drastic (and now prohibited)
rearrangement of the global neural architecture.
One hemisphere has no access to spoken language,
but apparently still has views it wants to
express. But in these cases, still the
no-spoken-language hemisphere has a prefrontal
lobe. I don't believe it is possible to imagine
what it is like to be such an individual, in fact,
nor how the subjective multi-experiences of the
brain-bisected patient can be related to those of
an intact brain.     (09)

Certain individuals are born without a corpus
callosum and function, with language, without the
problems disclosed by split brain experiments
(they have other problems yet they live in society
and hold down jobs, and so forth). Which only goes
to show how very little we actually know about
neurobiology and biophysics in general (and, BTW,
despite western governments, including the Obama
administration, apparent enthusiasm for the
subject, "mapping the brain" tells us nothing much
of consequence).    (010)

So I think it is very difficult, in fact, to draw
definitive conclusions from our current knowledge
of the human brain and that the evidence for
language effects upon behavior, while
inconclusive, is stronger from observation in the
large than it is in the small at this point.     (011)

All respect to your personal experience, of
course.    (012)

Best regards,
Steven    (013)

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